Liberators too strong? - Page 2

Sunrock · 2012-12-21, 02:41 AM

Originally Posted by Fear The Amish

So i have had some bad experiences lately with Liberators and just checking if im the only one. To preface this i do roll with an outfit and yes we will have 4-5 dual bursters providing air cover... So how can a lib that is way outside of firing range of a max either Vertical or horizantal (1-2 hex's away but points noise up or to the side so gunner can fire into the base) so DAMNED effective? we took gravel pass last night and started taking some air fire so grabed some max's and positioned them all over they cleared the ESF's no problem but the LIBS! there was 2 that were at max cieling just circling raining the pain down which we could scare off for long enough for them to repair and come back. but couldn't kill them so to scare them off we would lose 2-3 infantry every time. but the WORST was there was a few hovering over ZURVAN! a hex away and would just raise the nose or roll to the side and they would fire in from there completely out of range. So at this point we grabed a few A2A scythes which though they fired a full load of missles only got 2 of them but in the proccess got shot down by the 6-7 other liberators.

I'm not sure if the distances you describe is accurate. I been running liberators allot lately so I think I have some experience with them. The thing is that infantry does not render until around 300-350 meters. The distance between two bases on any continent is at it's shortest point max 500 meters, more commonly it's about 600-700 meters. The only thing that renders at 700-800 meters are vehicles. And no you can not kill anything in this game that have not rendered for you.

Also burster maxes Vs Liberators. 4-5 burster maxes should be able to take care of a liberator that is within infantry render distance. If they can't they god damn have to learn to aim.

But yes it can be hard to kill a Libirator that has air speed frame and after burners. I have max air speed and 2 spec into afterburners and I can accelerate from 0 to 225 in 2 sec, making me as faster then a reaver but able to take allot more damage. This making me able to brake off easily when I start to get to low HP.

Sunrock · 2012-12-21, 02:48 AM

Originally Posted by boogy

Yes Liberators are too strong. Doesn't take a genius to figure that one out.
There are plenty grey areas of balance in this game. Liberators being too strong(offensively) is not one of them.

The damage of their weapons are pure OP ridiculous. The area of effect, splash damage, or whatever crap you call it is out of line. I was a MAX with flack level 3 armor, halfway in a building and got killed by that BS. The feeling a player gets when that happens is akin to being shot through the wall by a hacker. It's frustrating, not fun, enough to make you quit.

Most have been a very small building then. The splash damage is as effecting as it is on the MBT HE rounds on the dalton. And about the same as the HEAT on the zepher.

PS: Stay away from any doors next time

Sunrock · 2012-12-21, 03:03 AM

Originally Posted by Fear The Amish

the Dalton's bomb is server side no need for "render"

That is 100% bull shit. Only way for that to happen is to run some sort of 3rd party hack program.

boogy · 2012-12-21, 03:15 AM

Originally Posted by Sunrock

Most have been a very small building then. The splash damage is as effecting as it is on the MBT HE rounds on the dalton. And about the same as the HEAT on the zepher.

Yes splash damage is too much in general. It was a small building. Half or more than half the buildings in this game are small. Point is, a building, any size, should provide cover. Part of infantry gameplay is cover. Cover doesn't exist in this game. Nothing works as cover in this game. All those crappy crates and barrels are useless. Those platforms are useless. Trees are useless. Rocks clusters are useless. Infantry have no cover device that he can duck in and out of against vehicles, yet a freakin magrider, a freakin tank, a freakin esf, can duck, weave, and bob for cover against infantry fire and rockets.

Now the Liberator takes the cake. It's an impregnable shit in the air with nothing obstructing you from him. If we actually had cover you could crouch under the doorway and fire back, but nope, nope, and nope..splash damage. You might as well add nukes in this game because the results would be the same as a couple libs bombing an outpost. As someone said earlier, during off hours, you know the remaining 22hours in the day, there is nothing you can do about a liberator. Air during off hours rollstomps.

Timey · 2012-12-21, 03:50 AM

Originally Posted by Ghoest9

Libs should cost more.

I don't think that increasing the cost would fix the problem at all. Competent pilots will be alive long enough to just be able to get a new one unless a lib would cost like 750 aero. Same goes for tanks and pretty much anything.

Not saying I don't agree they should cost more.

I'm thinking all heavy vehicles (mbt, lib, sundy, possibly gal) should have their timers increased a lot. Like 45min timer stock and maybe 20-30min if fully certed timer thing. Then It'd hurt if you lost one too soon..

edit: well, yeah, guess I kind of made a donkey out of myself there. Since resources basically = timer if you exhaust your resource pool

but yeah, you get the point (maybe?)

Qwan · 2012-12-21, 06:24 AM

Yea I can feel the author of the thread on this one, with the lib raining hell down on infantry. But I do have to add that this is what they do, this is the purpose of this weapon, not to just sit up there and look pretty. Now if it can hit targets a hex away let the devs know and see if its a glitch or bug or even a hack. In my outfit we have flight class were we learn to dog fight and manuver and we have classes on how to set up your keys, this has become very handy and effective, maybe you should consider this.

Mavvvy · 2012-12-21, 07:40 AM

Originally Posted by Sunrock

That is 100% bull shit. Only way for that to happen is to run some sort of 3rd party hack program.

Sure does make you wonder, been coming across similar anomalies lately myself.

KaskaMatej · 2012-12-21, 07:45 AM

Originally Posted by Fear The Amish

5-10 but my problem is that the Liberators are now equally good at Air 2 Air and Air 2 Ground without changing anything. Were as any other vehicle or infantry in the game is only useful against on.

You seem to forget about ESF, which coincidently is Liberator' hard counter, which would be even better if ESF wouldn't be a counter to everything in the game. But that's a different story.

Liberator kills ground. It should be the best anti-ground aircraft in the game. It's slow and it isn't something I would call nimble in the air. It's big. It need a crew of two who communicate. I needs to have lots of armour or HP to be actually hitting ground, meaning not getting blown to smithereens by G2A AA before it is able to do so.

Liberator is the most balanced attack vehicle in the game right now, IMO.

Storn · 2012-12-21, 07:49 AM

Originally Posted by Fear The Amish

So i have had some bad experiences lately with Liberators and just checking if im the only one. To preface this i do roll with an outfit and yes we will have 4-5 dual bursters providing air cover... So how can a lib that is way outside of firing range of a max either Vertical or horizantal (1-2 hex's away but points noise up or to the side so gunner can fire into the base) so DAMNED effective? we took gravel pass last night and started taking some air fire so grabed some max's and positioned them all over they cleared the ESF's no problem but the LIBS! there was 2 that were at max cieling just circling raining the pain down which we could scare off for long enough for them to repair and come back. but couldn't kill them so to scare them off we would lose 2-3 infantry every time. but the WORST was there was a few hovering over ZURVAN! a hex away and would just raise the nose or roll to the side and they would fire in from there completely out of range. So at this point we grabed a few A2A scythes which though they fired a full load of missles only got 2 of them but in the proccess got shot down by the 6-7 other liberators.

A lib at max altitude can not see infantry as they wont render but most times vehciles wont either; however, any rendered vehicle can be shot and if an infantry is near when the vehciles goes a kill will be given for the infantry as well. As a lib pilot I like to get down for the easy infantry and flash kills as they give good return on the xp.

BTW Decimators hurt!

Bear · 2012-12-21, 07:54 AM

Solving the Liberator spamming problem is very simple. Make the Dalton a dedicated anti-armor platform with virtually no splash damage. Get rid of the Zephyr entirely. Liberators are supposed to be bombers not hovering artillery bases. Go back to the PS1 style of Liberator and force them to do actual bombing runs. Make the runs powerful but at least require them to fly over the base.

HiroshiChugi · 2012-12-21, 08:57 AM

Originally Posted by Bear

Get rid of the Zephyr entirely.

are you crazy?!? D:

taht's my fav gun in the game

keep it,just power it down slightly if anything.

Fear The Amish · 2012-12-22, 07:45 PM

alot of people keep saying well they don't render!! the dalton is SERVER side just like a gernade so you don't need to see them just know they are there and bomb...

Beerbeer · 2012-12-22, 07:57 PM

I think they're a bit much but...

I actually don't mind the damage just because I know it takes two people to dish it out, but I believe--like all vehicles--they should be rarer and fall inline with vehicle restrictions. Having so many of these around just obliterates everything.

Sony seemed to have overlooked the fact that by providing unlimited vehicle access to let people continuously access the play style they enjoy the most impinges on other people's ability to enjoy their play style.

Sturmhardt · 2012-12-22, 08:05 PM

I think Liberators are fine, ESFs are too strong against ground with their rocketpods.

It should be like this:

Liberators kill ground
ESF kill liberators
Ground deters liberators and ESF
ESF DO NOT kill ground, they only deter ground

So in my eyes Libs are fine, they need 3 people to operate and I can take a lib down with 3 AA Maxes, so that is fine.
ESF on the other hand are way overpowered given the fact that it's just one guy killing air AND ground alike.

Sturmhardt · 2012-12-22, 09:30 PM

What? If you have 3 dual burster Maxes aiming for that lib it's not gonna come near you, that's how it is.