Liberators too strong? - Page 3

boogy · 2012-12-22, 10:10 PM

Until bases and continents can be adjusted to accomodate them. I think the best solutions are one or a combination of the following:

1. Nerf Lib's weapons, reduce armor

2. Remove spash damage from game.

3. Make flak armor against air 100% not 50%. 50% was never going to work. That just means it will take a 1/4 second more for a Lib to farm infantry. 100% flak armor is a game changer, and we need a game changing tweak to fix this issue. 100% flak armor allows the counter to infantry be infantry or tank. If you want the counter to Lib to be an ESF then this is only fair game.

4. Make rocket launchers better effective against Libs vs. ESFs. The counter to ESFs at this moment is the AA Max. It's really effective. In fact I think ESFs need an armor buff. This is the perfect opportunity to BUFF the ESF flare ability and BUFF the hell out of the Ground to Air rockets. This will make GA rockets effective against Libs but and not ruin the ESF's survivability.

5. Increase tank top armor a lot.

These are just temp solutions. Band-aids. The long term we need bases, outposts, and continent flow to better fit both air and ground. I like the rule of thumb that says, out in the open is the domain of air and armor - bases are the domain of infantry - terrain dictates the emphasis and flow of where one begins, where one ends, and where they both meet.

Suitepee · 2012-12-23, 07:32 AM

If they ever increase the render distance for infantry spotting with air units, you'll see how strong liberators will get. Can't believe people actually WANT to see that happen.

Liberators too strong? No kidding they are, all air units are strong right now.

ShadetheDruid · 2012-12-23, 08:11 AM

I think the problem with Libs is the same problem with all the air; they aren't being forced to specialise like everyone else. That and the general vehicle problem of the resource system being broken.

Whether it's the Dalton/Zephyr or rocket pods, they can just pretty much just destroy anything on the ground regardless of what it is (arguably ESFs are worse, because they're one-person vehicles and still get a nose gun as well).

I'd love to see, at the very least, pods split into two different types (so as an ESF pilot, you could choose A2A missiles, AI pods or AV pods), and fix the Dalton and Zephyr so they actually have proper roles beyond "asplodes stuff that's on the ground".

As someone who recently just took up flying (in a Scythe) i'd love to be able to take a type of pod (even something that fired only one or two high damage rockets per reload) to specifically target ground vehicles (and use the nose gun on infantry, which is so much more rewarding when you manage it). But.. I just can't bring myself to buy rocket pods as they are now.

Sunrock · 2012-12-23, 05:52 PM

Originally Posted by DjEclipse

With so many Libs in the sky the max math to counter them gets silly. The real
counter to the Libs is in the game, Skyguards; they presently do not live up to
there name, so we have a Lib infestation. Fix Skyguards.

Well Libs with tank busters equipped is a good alternative too to take down other libs. Besides ESF with A2A missiles will take down libs with no problem either.
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The thing is all this QQ about X vehicle is OP is happens because some arm chair general in some outfit decides now we all going to attack with magriders. And when that fails do to air attacks he then comes here and want to nerf every lib in the game. Because there are tactics that counter liberators.

Just get your ESF up in the air. And not just 2-3 of them. You need at least 10 of them to secure the air around an amp station or tech plant.

If you die to liberators it's because you lack air support. It's just that simple. Stop QQ'ing because you fail at understanding game mechanics.

boogy · 2012-12-23, 05:52 PM

I do agree air needs to be forced to specialize. The problem with the liberator is the concept behind it being an anti infantry vehicle. That right there is the fundamental flaw. Why is the most squishy and vulnerable thing in the game countered by the most toughest, unreachable, and powerful thing in the game? It's just wrong. It doesn't make sense. Until the concept of the lib changes, inf vs lib balance is screwed. Changing the concept of the galaxy as a mobile spawn point was one of the best decisions to come out of beta. I think we need the same type of rethink done to the liberator.

Fear The Amish · 2012-12-23, 05:56 PM

Originally Posted by Sunrock

Well Libs with tank busters equipped is a good alternative too to take down other libs. Besides ESF with A2A missiles will take down libs with no problem either.
---------------------------------------------------------------

The thing is all this QQ about X vehicle is OP is happens because some arm chair general in some outfit decides now we all going to attack with magriders. And when that fails do to air attacks he then comes here and want to nerf every lib in the game. Because there are tactics that counter liberators.

Just get your ESF up in the air. And not just 2-3 of them. You need at least 10 of them to secure the air around an amp station or tech plant.

If you die to liberators it's because you lack air support. It's just that simple. Stop QQ'ing because you fail at understanding game mechanics.

did you actually read what was going on? we pulled an equal number of ESF's but because a lib can soak up 4-5 rockets easily and you have to actually lock them on the libs would cover each others tails and protect each other... so they shot down the ESF's

Sunrock · 2012-12-23, 05:57 PM

Originally Posted by boogy

I do agree air needs to be forced to specialize. The problem with the liberator is the concept behind it being an anti infantry vehicle. That right there is the fundamental flaw. Why is the most squishy and vulnerable thing in the game countered by the most toughest, unreachable, and powerful thing in the game? It's just wrong. It doesn't make sense. Until the concept of the lib changes, inf vs lib balance is screwed. Changing the concept of the galaxy as a mobile spawn point was one of the best decisions to come out of beta. I think we need the same type of rethink done to the liberator.

If skyguards or buster maxes was the only option to stop Libirators I would agree with you. But as that is not the case your argument is mute.

Besides... Air is the best counter to air have been sad by higby 100 times way can't we just accept that and move on? Or is it that every one here suck at piloting so they need to lobby forward buffing AA?

Sunrock · 2012-12-23, 06:03 PM

Originally Posted by Fear The Amish

did you actually read what was going on? we pulled an equal number of ESF's but because a lib can soak up 4-5 rockets easily and you have to actually lock them on the libs would cover each others tails and protect each other... so they shot down the ESF's

That has to do more about the players individual skill. You field because you where less skilled then your enemy in the case you describe.

PS: You can kill a liberator with 2 rockets too if you know what your doing. Libs have a soft spot like MBTs have. If you don't know where it is I wont give that info away. You have to figure that out by your self.

PPS: It's not the tail...

boogy · 2012-12-23, 06:18 PM

Originally Posted by Sunrock

If skyguards or buster maxes was the only option to stop Libirators I would agree with you. But as that is not the case your argument is mute.

Besides... Air is the best counter to air have been sad by higby 100 times way can't we just accept that and move on? Or is it that every one here suck at piloting so they need to lobby forward buffing AA?

You are not considering the possibility that Higby's idea isn't working.

And in no way what you wrote makes my argument moot. It is completely unrelated to the point being made.

Ghoest9 · 2012-12-23, 06:21 PM

Libs would be fine - if ESF were only effective against other air.

Fear The Amish · 2012-12-23, 06:27 PM

Originally Posted by Sunrock

That has to do more about the players individual skill. You field because you where less skilled then your enemy in the case you describe.

PS: You can kill a liberator with 2 rockets too if you know what your doing. Libs have a soft spot like MBTs have. If you don't know where it is I wont give that info away. You have to figure that out by your self.

PPS: It's not the tail...

ummm video proof because ive fired rockets at those things at all angles... wait why am i arguing this tracking missles ALWAYS hit the rear because you know people try and fly away and it tracks to the rear.

AHH! i see after looking at your stats your a lib pilot trying to protect your farming tool.

phungus · 2012-12-23, 06:36 PM

Originally Posted by Sunrock

If skyguards or buster maxes was the only option to stop Libirators I would agree with you. But as that is not the case your argument is mute.

Besides... Air is the best counter to air have been sad by higby 100 times way can't we just accept that and move on? Or is it that every one here suck at piloting so they need to lobby forward buffing AA?

YOu must be a very newbie liberator pilot. I hunt ESFs with my liberator, and so does anyone with any skill. Just because you're a shit player doesn't mean squat. Also you must not have any experience with taking down libs with an ESF, since you state an AA ESF is effective against libs, which isn't true, you need a nosegun and rocket pods to actually go after libs. Without ammo capacity upgrades an A2A ESF (with the A2A gun and A2A missiles) litterally doesn't have enough ammo to down a lib.

james · 2012-12-23, 06:56 PM

Heath is the problem with libs. They have to much, cut down the health, and reduce splash on the guns. Right now its basically an uber tank that flys

AThreatToYou · 2012-12-23, 06:56 PM

If somehow you let 6+ liberators get comfortable above your base, then you should be fucked.

The best way to kill a liberator is with a tank shell or with more liberators...

Fear The Amish · 2012-12-23, 07:04 PM

Originally Posted by AThreatToYou

If somehow you let 6+ liberators get comfortable above your base, then you should be fucked.

The best way to kill a liberator is with a tank shell or with more liberators...

do you realize how outragious that statement is? the counter for X is X or something that can't even get its turret high enough to shoot X