Liberators too strong?

[NoXousX]

Originally Posted by Fear The Amish

love how a lib whore is telling me that they are easy to counter with his 10 K/D. But i think Lib shots need to be like Rockets and any other weapon in the game they only do max dmg at like 200 meters away then decline drastically. To help them stay alive make them faster. but to counter the speed less HP. I think this would change their roll from super high flying WTFfacePWNERS to high risk high reward bombers.

I hardly ever bomb a lib. I prefer to let my outfit members do the bombing. And libs are easy to counter. You just need to know how to do it. I normally harass them and force them to turn back. If they don't, it's a free kill. If they over extend, it's a free kill. The second part of your statement basically what I was getting at.

More risk, more skill, potentially more reward.

[Rivenshield]

When you have forty, rather than four or six, enemies shooting at you at once, lethality goes way up. We all understand that. The only instagib weapons in a massive multiple FPS should be (a) a bundle of RDX and (b) sniper headshots. Both take daring and skill.

Lobbing multiple hand grenades down hallways requires neither. And when you have multiple people with a pair of frags each, indoor combat becomes the instadeath spamfest it currently is. LOL GET FLACK ARMOR. I did -- all but one box ticked off. Makes no perceptible difference when you have grenades going off in the room/hallway/stairwell every two seconds.

Go outside, and you get Liberated. It's the same dynamic on a Biblical scale, without the possibility of shooting back. LOL PULL A MOSSIE. I can't fly with mouse and keyboard. I've tried and died repeatedly, mostly from crashing. LOL PULL A BURSTER MAX. Does no good when you die as soon as you step outside, over and over and bloody fucking over.

LOL LRN2PLAY NOOB, STOP GETTING FARMED LOL. How...? How do I arrange this miracle, exactly? Start refusing to fight except when victory is a foregone conclusion? Stop fighting as soon as the Liberators show up at my outpost? Go back to the main menu and switch sides and join the winners?

Granted I'm not much of a gamer, and I've always been subpar at FPS's, but I'm content in a support role. I'm not whining for nerfs and I'm not dumb. I've tried every trick and every maneuver and every emplacement on most of Indar, which at least on Connery is the only place the TR stand a chance for the past week. Nothing works. High-explosive instadeath is now the norm. Those of us that persist in thinking this is a first-person shooter with bonus strategic wargame are walking bags of XP. And one by one, until it gets fixed, we're leaving... not in a fit of nerdrage, but in a sort of dull funk.

I frankly see no fix without pulling the lollipop out of too many mouths. Base redesigns will help. Raising the TTK for infantry slightly across the board, and perhaps half again for anything that explodes, will help. I honestly cannot think of anything else, folks.

I don't want nerfs or buffs. I want *change.* Because the status quo is not sustainable. And I feel badly for the current crop of gamers who will never get the awesome fix we did, being part of a self-organized swarm that made strategic decisions by consensus, ten years ago.

[Dragonskin]

Originally Posted by Fear The Amish

BULL shit... so i decided to throw my outfit into libs we just sat at max height and removed vehicles. then we got a little lower and targeted the max's then we just stayed and farmed. Just get infared on the dalton and they stand out nicely and 2 dalton bombs and they are dead when you are circling at max render they barely can damage you anyways so 2-4 libs just devour any max's

So your argument is that libs are OP because you can overpower the enemy by throwing your whole outfit into libs to kill everything... does anyone else see why this is a bad arguement.

Basically what you highlighted is that libs are OP if you have more libs then the enemy has AA. Which is a pretty duh statement. This is a numbers game. If you have more vehicles than they have forces to counter that vehicle then you will steamroll them. Pick your vehicle... any of them will make that statement true. If you don't have suffecient stopping power to kill tanks then tanks will steamroll you. If you don't have suffecient stopping power for air then air will steamroll you. If you have less forces than the enemy then the enemy will likely steamroll you.

Hell, for shits and giggles get your whole outfit to roll sunderers with fury and bulldogs... steamroll the enemy because you have sunderers and they lack the AV to stop you.

[Sunrock]

Originally Posted by Rivenshield

When you have forty, rather than four or six, enemies shooting at you at once, lethality goes way up. We all understand that. The only instagib weapons in a massive multiple FPS should be (a) a bundle of RDX and (b) sniper headshots. Both take daring and skill.

Don't know what RDX is but saying that you need daring and skill for sniper headshots is quite an exaggeration. At least not if the target stands still.

Originally Posted by Rivenshield

Lobbing multiple hand grenades down hallways requires neither. And when you have multiple people with a pair of frags each, indoor combat becomes the instadeath spamfest it currently is. LOL GET FLACK ARMOR. I did -- all but one box ticked off. Makes no perceptible difference when you have grenades going off in the room/hallway/stairwell every two seconds.

What are don't you move to an other point of attack then? There is no base in this game where you only have one point of entrance. Or just retreat a bit wait 30 sec and they all run out of grenades and then storm up.

Originally Posted by Rivenshield

Go outside, and you get Liberated. It's the same dynamic on a Biblical scale, without the possibility of shooting back. LOL PULL A MOSSIE. I can't fly with mouse and keyboard. I've tried and died repeatedly, mostly from crashing. LOL PULL A BURSTER MAX. Does no good when you die as soon as you step outside, over and over and bloody fucking over.

FYI mouse and keyboard is the best way to fly in this game. Joystick sensibility in this game sucks. Besides how it it anyone else problem that you can't fly? There are allot of good piloted what can fly with mouse and keyboard in this game so it's just your own fault that you have not spent enough time training your own skills. And if you think you don't have the time to spend on the game thats no one else problem but your own either. As there are plenty of players with work and family that manage to pull that off.

Originally Posted by Rivenshield

LOL LRN2PLAY NOOB, STOP GETTING FARMED LOL. How...? How do I arrange this miracle, exactly? Start refusing to fight except when victory is a foregone conclusion? Stop fighting as soon as the Liberators show up at my outpost? Go back to the main menu and switch sides and join the winners?

How do you learn anything? By training. Spend more time in game.

Originally Posted by Rivenshield

Granted I'm not much of a gamer, and I've always been subpar at FPS's, but I'm content in a support role. I'm not whining for nerfs and I'm not dumb. I've tried every trick and every maneuver and every emplacement on most of Indar, which at least on Connery is the only place the TR stand a chance for the past week. Nothing works. High-explosive instadeath is now the norm. Those of us that persist in thinking this is a first-person shooter with bonus strategic wargame are walking bags of XP. And one by one, until it gets fixed, we're leaving... not in a fit of nerdrage, but in a sort of dull funk.

What a bunch of losers play on that server? Amerish should be the easiest continent to take for TR. But yea this is not COD: Sci-fi MMO. Meaning this is not a game that focus on infantry game play only.

Originally Posted by Rivenshield

I frankly see no fix without pulling the lollipop out of too many mouths. Base redesigns will help. Raising the TTK for infantry slightly across the board, and perhaps half again for anything that explodes, will help. I honestly cannot think of anything else, folks.

I don't want nerfs or buffs. I want *change.* Because the status quo is not sustainable. And I feel badly for the current crop of gamers who will never get the awesome fix we did, being part of a self-organized swarm that made strategic decisions by consensus, ten years ago.

TTK is good as it is. Not to low and not to high. Making this game where the infantry rules and vehicles are just a funny gimmick but are totally useless can never happen as it would totally ruin the concept of the game. Infantry is only good to take bases with. If you want more infantry only fights stick to the bio labs, that is what they are designed for.

I believe the the core fighting mech is good as they are right now. Only problem this game have is that there is no purpose to the fights other then to farm exp. They need to make the conquerer of land more viable.

[Dragonskin]

Originally Posted by Fear The Amish

Read the thing you quoted previously i want them to be more of fast agile bombers instead of big lumbering air tanks. and it was 6 libs with 2 in each and maybe 12 A2A scythes and a gal full of infantry. Libs and scythes would go in and nuke everything with scythes providing cover then infantry would get hotdroped. we ran into an AA battery of 8-10 max's with a sundie so they libs just sat at the ceiling and nuked the sundie then came down to 600-500 meters (they render above 300....) we lost 1 and 4 had to repair and come back back. so those 8-10 max's got 1 kill....

dual burster maxes are not the only answer to air. They are the best ground based AA, but really you need to counter air with a combination of AA.

So again.. your arguement is that 6 libs and 12 a2a scythes were able to overpower a small force. 8-10 maxes around 1 sunderer is bad placement... that isn't proof of anything being over powered. You have 12 a2a scythes denying the enemy of countering with air. Then you had 6 libs pounding the ground from max hieght.

You simply overpowered the enemy with numbers. It's a numbers game. I don't know how people don't understand this. The SOE promo for the game even says SIZE. ALWAYS. MATTERS... that's a clue.

[Lieken]

Only read the title but:

AA maxes and infantry are invisible to a liberator and therefore cannot be touched, if that lib continues on an attack vector into the hail of flak and AA missiles he will never make it out

Libs are fine until this supposed render distance fix comes in, until then I can only suggest getting better or getting in an ESF and attacking from above

Probably the former if you're in an "outfit"

[typhaon]

I'm going to go out on a limb and say there are hundreds of infantry and MAX units that have in fact... been touched by Liberators.

I think the flight mechanics are too easy... Libs shouldn't be able to be armored, hovering, AOE platforms - they should require a substantial forward speed or they should fall out of the sky. Perhaps very stripped down (ie. unarmored Liberators) should be more hoverable... but then there would be a tradeoffs.

[moosepoop]

liberators need an accuracy and damage decrease, but i think they need to keep the high armor for survivability.

if aa damage is higher than deterrant air will be unplayable. the only way is to decrease the damage of air itself. the answer is not to increase aa dmg, but to decrease air dmg.

if air is not a hard counter to ground, but a deterrant to ground, it will be balanced.

[Sunrock]

Originally Posted by moosepoop

liberators need an accuracy and damage decrease, but i think they need to keep the high armor for survivability.

if aa damage is higher than deterrant air will be unplayable. the only way is to decrease the damage of air itself. the answer is not to increase aa dmg, but to decrease air dmg.

if air is not a hard counter to ground, but a deterrant to ground, it will be balanced.

Libirators are there as bombers. That means there primary function is to be a hard counter to ground. If you nerf that you might as well remove libs all to gather.

Thinks are just fine as they are. Learn to play the game instead of cry rivers on the forums until the game get nerfed to your skill level like a fucking noob.

[ExplodingSilver]

I paid for 6 months subscription at release, I wish I hadn't after the way its turned into a game for OP liberators.

[StumpyTheOzzie]

YES! What Sunrock said here.

Originally Posted by Sunrock

Only reason a liberator is able to farm infantry is that no one tries to attack it. I have seen that many times where you can get 50+ kill streaks as a gunner in the liberator because no one bather to even pull one buster max. That is the bottom line here.

I'm in an outfit which is "air cav" suppression-and-support oriented. We don't get our hands dirty with the whole "base capture indoor fighting" part of the game but we will suppress spawn rooms and supply sunderers. This way the zerg can focus on zerging and we provide them with secondary and tertiary spawn points while keeping the enemy spawn points pinned down and the pressure off the people on cap.

I regularly end the night with 150kills and 5 deaths. That's being a pilot half the time and a gunner the other half. I have spent several thousand certs in liberator, and my outfit has been together in one form or another for 15 years so we know what we're doing. Good communication and all that stuff.

Taking all of this into account, it still boggles me that nobody can think to come up with a counter to liberators. It's hilarious. I'll let you in on a secret... The Dalton takes 4 seconds to fire. So, you get two bait runners and everyone else in AA maxes. Wait till they're ready then the bait run out of both spawn room doors as fast as they can. 5 seconds later, all the maxes pour out and start shooting. The result is 1 or 2 dead bait and a dead liberator. That frees up that spawn room so that everyone who spawns in the next 20 minutes (or so) can't be killed by that liberator team.

But of course... the bait's KDR will suffer. So nobody wants to be bait. So that means they will all be slaughtered because nobody's willing to take one for the team.

[Beerbeer]

Just too many of them.

Like all vehicles, a few in a battle makes things well-rounded, a ton if them just breaks battles completely.


Late last night, I watched one lib hold down ten people at an outpost while one person capped. Ten people, desperately trying to get to the control point, getting instantly vaporized the minute they stepped outside. First, I was upset because I couldn't get any tank kills, but then I just watched in awe.

These players at the outpost, were mostly newbies. I would bet more than half of them stop playing if they experience something like this again. That's why the population never grows and continues to shrink. The population will eventually stabilize around vehicle people.

[Whiteagle]

Originally Posted by StumpyTheOzzie

Taking all of this into account, it still boggles me that nobody can think to come up with a counter to liberators. It's hilarious. I'll let you in on a secret... The Dalton takes 4 seconds to fire. So, you get two bait runners and everyone else in AA maxes. Wait till they're ready then the bait run out of both spawn room doors as fast as they can. 5 seconds later, all the maxes pour out and start shooting. The result is 1 or 2 dead bait and a dead liberator. That frees up that spawn room so that everyone who spawns in the next 20 minutes (or so) can't be killed by that liberator team.

*SMACKS CHU UPSIDE THE HEAD!*

You don't see a problem here, do you?

"Pff, noobs, why aren't they a highly coordinated squad/PLATOON with perfect communication and timing so they can take out my single three man Liberator?!"

...That's what you sound like, because you are an arrogant kill-whoring ass who doesn't see what the problem is.

You should NEVER be capable of suppressing the Spawn Room with Air Superiority...
The MOST you should be able to point at those spawn doors is a Tank Cannon, if that!

Do you ever stop and ask yourself why people call this game "Airside 2"?
It's because Air Superiority is the ONLY deciding factor in the game right now due to HORRID base designs.

Hell, at least Armor spam is limited by terrain, so Amerish's mountains allow Infantry to fight against that...

...But why bother with Infantry when a SINGLE LIB, let alone the four or five that are actually going to be hovering overhead, can shut down a base by its lonesome?

...Is the Liberator itself too strong?
Not really in my own opinion, in PROPER fighting conditions it's perfectly balanced for its role as an Air-to-Ground platform...
...But when you are hurting for cover overhead as SOON as you leave a spawn shack, it just IS NOT FAIR!

...God damn, I'd have hated for you jerks to get your hands on "Bunker Busting" bombs...

[Fear The Amish]

Originally Posted by Whiteagle

*SMACKS CHU UPSIDE THE HEAD!*

You don't see a problem here, do you?

"Pff, noobs, why aren't they a highly coordinated squad/PLATOON with perfect communication and timing so they can take out my single three man Liberator?!"

...That's what you sound like, because you are an arrogant kill-whoring ass who doesn't see what the problem is.

You should NEVER be capable of suppressing the Spawn Room with Air Superiority...
The MOST you should be able to point at those spawn doors is a Tank Cannon, if that!

Do you ever stop and ask yourself why people call this game "Airside 2"?
It's because Air Superiority is the ONLY deciding factor in the game right now due to HORRID base designs.

Hell, at least Armor spam is limited by terrain, so Amerish's mountains allow Infantry to fight against that...

...But why bother with Infantry when a SINGLE LIB, let alone the four or five that are actually going to be hovering overhead, can shut down a base by its lonesome?

...Is the Liberator itself too strong?
Not really in my own opinion, in PROPER fighting conditions it's perfectly balanced for its role as an Air-to-Ground platform...
...But when you are hurting for cover overhead as SOON as you leave a spawn shack, it just IS NOT FAIR!

...God damn, I'd have hated for you jerks to get your hands on "Bunker Busting" bombs...

lol great post

[Subedai]

The other day I pulled a dual burster max to scare off a lib, the lib just landed in front of me and all 3 crew got out and repaired while I was STILL shooting at the lib.... Then took off and shot at the guys around me, rinsed and repeated about 5 times. With me still shooting at them the whole time. I gave up and deconned my sundy.

'Nuff said.