Higby on XP Changes - Page 4

Crator · 2013-02-01, 09:46 AM

It' obvious that you must "spawn somewhere else" with the current way that a lot of spawn locations are setup. What I don't understand is why folks feel they must tell people that. Pretty sure that's a no-brainer. Also, it typically ends any kind of progressive discussion about why players are complaining about spawn camping. It also makes it seem like, those that say that, could care less that they have to spawn somewhere else. That the mechanic is not broken. It displays to the DEVs that it is the accepted solution, even if those that say that don't agree completely that it is.

MrBloodworth · 2013-02-01, 11:21 AM

Originally Posted by VaderShake

MrB, I was not commenting on how defensible a base is or is not, but if your to the point of being spawn camped and there is no one there to stop the other team from spawn camping you....well...it's over try something else

This is true, BECAUSE of the current base layouts. Its still a flaw. Its a direct effect of them, and any time you say something like this, you ARE talking about the base layouts and defensibility. And No, its not my point, not at all.

Originally Posted by Baneblade

I have no pity for those being spawn camped. The first time, you die. The second time you chose to die via camp.

Not even the issue being talked about. But im sure posting it made you feel like a superior being.

Bags · 2013-02-01, 11:31 AM

Vehicle damage XP? I've wanted this since PS1! I always felt like it was a waste of time to shoot a full hp vehicle in PS1, and sometimes even so in ps2.

Baneblade · 2013-02-01, 01:33 PM

Originally Posted by MrBloodworth

Not even the issue being talked about. But im sure posting it made you feel like a superior being.

Interesting choice of words 'superior being'. I feel like a 'superior being' regardless.

I'm aware of the issues of defense that exacerbate spawn camping, but you can never actually be rid of it. The same people who complain about Prowlers in the CC will complain about Mosquitoes destroying the gens... sorry, flashback.

The same people who are currently spawn camped by MBTs and Libs will still be spawn camped by HAs and Engs. You can buff spawns all you want, the result will invariably be spawn camping.

MrBloodworth · 2013-02-01, 01:34 PM

I never proposed to be rid of it. Just to make it not the first action in an assault. No one said "Buff spawning" ether.

Its the outpost designs that promote it, seemingly by design. You don't make base designs like this unless its the intended game play you want.

You are blaming the Victim for the design. Skipping intelligent discussion to change the progression of a fight. Right now, there is very little fights because of it. The go to is find the spawn.

Baneblade · 2013-02-01, 01:38 PM

I speaking to the room, 'superior beings' tend to do that.

But no, you are correct, spawn camping isn't the actual problem, its everything that happens before the spawn camping. The entire defensive strategy is focused around attrition, not actually pushing back. And the offense is just going for the touchdown.

MrBloodworth · 2013-02-01, 02:06 PM

Sure, touchdown, if the End zone was on the attackers side and not the defenders. Yeah.

Because that's Exactly how it plays out right now.

Rockit · 2013-02-01, 02:10 PM

Guess we need to get on Reddit? Ha, no.

Ghoest9 · 2013-02-01, 02:45 PM

Originally Posted by Crator

It' obvious that you must "spawn somewhere else" with the current way that a lot of spawn locations are setup. What I don't understand is why folks feel they must tell people that. Pretty sure that's a no-brainer. Also, it typically ends any kind of progressive discussion about why players are complaining about spawn camping. It also makes it seem like, those that say that, could care less that they have to spawn somewhere else. That the mechanic is not broken. It displays to the DEVs that it is the accepted solution, even if those that say that don't agree completely that it is.

I would suppose we feel the need because we keep seeing people letting themselves be farmed when the base is clearly lost in game and we keep hearing them cry about it on forums.

MrBloodworth · 2013-02-01, 04:00 PM

Some people cry about being spawn camped. Other recognize the game encourages it, and would like that changed. Two different people. Some warned it would happen in beta.

Painting them as the same group is where the "Spawn somewhere else" group goes wrong. It does not help the conversation at all, and they knew that to begin with. But they are just smarter then everyone else

Ah, that's been someones go to every time its brought up.

http://www.planetside-universe.com/s...t=Base+layouts

Ill just leave this here:

Originally Posted by MrBloodworth

There is only one defense in a defend the base action. Then its over, and you spend the next 15-20 minutes being spawn camped, our, you move on. Leaving the Attackers standing around for 15-20 min.

This is 100% about base design. The problem is, this happens RIGHT OFF THE BAT.

The Spawn room should be the last reachable thing in ANY base or outpost. Right now, the base design asks defenders to fight an overwhelming and better equipped force to even BEGIN to defend.

If you do not repel the attacking force in the first assault ( AKA your first death ), you loose. Because moments before you died, that spwn point was already being camped by every tank and Engi Turret in the area.

Originally Posted by MrBloodworth

"Spawn somewhere else" is a horrible suggestion for such an obvious flaw. Not only does it not address the issue, it attempts to trivialize AND justifies the bad design.

Meanwhile, it still makes for some really terrible game-play. You will never see the epic comebacks from the original.

All that matters is Mass of players, and who camps better with tanks. Real fun there.

Fortress · 2013-02-01, 10:39 PM

Just a friendly reminder that if you have less than 1 K/D, you are getting farmed and should support base changes that discourage spawn abuse in the spirit of rational self interest.

Carry on.

Wahooo · 2013-02-01, 11:26 PM

Such a silly conversation. I would prefer a game that base defense doesn't end as soon as the enemy shows up. Spawn camping starts at damn near the start of a base assault.

"spawn somewhere else" is a stupid comment. I've chosen to spawn in a different game. SOE was warned about this stuff a very long time ago, and that they are only making baby steps toward fixing it... and THOSE are only coming after they fucked it up more. Yeah, why spawn in to begin with if there is no actual fight from a defensive perspective?

Chewy · 2013-02-02, 12:04 AM

Originally Posted by Fortress

Just a friendly reminder that if you have less than 1 K/D, you are getting farmed and should support base changes that discourage spawn abuse in the spirit of rational self interest.

Carry on.

A KDR of 1 doesn't make you farm bait. I takes a LOT more than just KDR to tell if someone feeds a farm. Main reason why? Support.

I play support classes all day and by definition of support player I can't be a killer. It's my job to keep those around me full on HP and ammo so that THEY can be the better killers. If I don't risk my ass many times over then things don't get done. Bases get lost, attacks fail, and everyone dies. The only time Im not a pure support player is when there's orders for armor, even then I pull Skyguards or an ammo sundy. It's VERY rare that I take the role of a killer because I find them a bore after years of doing that in other FPSes.

How did you get that KDR of 10 that you're so proud of showing but not so proud to keep it a link? Id really call your stats into question, until I seen your base caps and defendings. Your entire outfit in fact has a HUGE favor for defending bases. Something like that doesn't happen unless you guys spend all day farming the Crown/biol-lab or being a vehicle whore. I can't see any other reason why you have 1041 defends and a mere 248 caps but to be padding stats/farming the easiest of cert farms

If Im wrong, please inform me. Id love to know just how the hell you got those stats. Till then Im going to assume and take you're point of view on KDR as little value.

MaxDamage · 2013-02-02, 12:51 AM

Originally Posted by MercDT

Knock it off?

How about adding a way to stop defenders from spawning when the battle is long overdue?

Yeah, they should add spawn generators or something.

OHSHI

Fortress · 2013-02-02, 03:07 PM

Originally Posted by Chewy

A KDR of 1 doesn't make you farm bait. I takes a LOT more than just KDR to tell if someone feeds a farm. Main reason why? Support.

I play support classes all day and by definition of support player I can't be a killer. It's my job to keep those around me full on HP and ammo so that THEY can be the better killers. If I don't risk my ass many times over then things don't get done. Bases get lost, attacks fail, and everyone dies. The only time Im not a pure support player is when there's orders for armor, even then I pull Skyguards or an ammo sundy. It's VERY rare that I take the role of a killer because I find them a bore after years of doing that in other FPSes.

How did you get that KDR of 10 that you're so proud of showing but not so proud to keep it a link? Id really call your stats into question, until I seen your base caps and defendings. Your entire outfit in fact has a HUGE favor for defending bases. Something like that doesn't happen unless you guys spend all day farming the Crown/biol-lab or being a vehicle whore. I can't see any other reason why you have 1041 defends and a mere 248 caps but to be padding stats/farming the easiest of cert farms

If Im wrong, please inform me. Id love to know just how the hell you got those stats. Till then Im going to assume and take you're point of view on KDR as little value.

Less than is not the same as equals to. A KD of 1 means that, mathematically, you are farming as much as you are being farmed. Which is to say, not at all on either count.

I don't care if you call yourself a support player. I don't care if you don't like how I play (which is HA whenever I can, and HE/HEAT lightning whenever I can't). I have more defends than attacks because sitting around waiting for the cap to go through bores me to tears, and attacking is 10x easier than defending.

But that doesn't matter. At the end of the day, I'm putting down ten guys for every death and the only reason I'm doing that is because this game has incredibly exploitative design. You should be asking me why that is and how it could be fixed, rather than assuming that my playstyle is any less viable than yours.