Battle Rifles & Upcoming Changes

ShadetheDruid · 2013-02-12, 04:29 AM

Must be some other battle rifle enthusiasts around here, right? How about a discussion about what we're likely to see, and our hopes and dreams, for these things since we're hopefully getting a nice buff for them in the next patch.

Personally, the basics (ie. non-fantasyland stuff) i'd like to see is:

1. Bump the bullet velocity up a lot. They're currently 500, and that's way too low for something we're suppose to be using at mid range+ (especially compared to the velocity of LMGs and some carbines).
2. In addition to 1, give us the option to take high velocity ammo.
3. Moar faction flavour. The Eidolon has its (worse damage drop off, but no bullet drop), but the AMR-66 and the Warden are lacking. They otherwise also have all the exact same stats.

Now if I was going to go into wacky fantasy ideas land, this is what i'd love to see (in addition to the above):

Eidolon: Aside from the above issues, I think this is pretty close to what it should be for VS weaponry. Maybe bump the damage a tiny bit or decrease the recoil very slightly, as well as take a bit off the reload time just to finish it off.

Warden: Needs NC faction flavour. Moar damage. Perhaps needs more tweeking to make it a little more interesting, but my brain has gone blank right now.

AMR-66: I'd love to see them do something wacky with the AMR-66 just to make it totally unique to TR (unlikely, but one can hope

). Reduce the damage and increase the reload time, but in exchange give it 10 more rounds in the magazine and a two round burst mode. Might be a bit much, and a lot more unique than the other two (unless someone else can come up with something equally as good for the other two).

Anyone have any thoughts? Personally I love my Warden, despite it being underpowered, so hopefully the upcoming patch will be good for them.

Mutant · 2013-02-12, 06:12 AM

I have only used the AMR-66 but i don't use it often, it feels outdone by the TMG-50 in all cases.

And i totally agree billet velocity is the reason, at mid ranges where the full 200 dmg should really feel the benefit over the damage loss that LMG suffer it is too hard to hit targets (compared to TMG-50 with HV).

The main use for the battle rifle is for the eng as a longer range option.

Baneblade · 2013-02-12, 06:36 AM

I trialed the Warden, it definitely hits hard already and is accurate in ADS. Kind of wish it at least had burst fire though. And more attachment options.

ShadetheDruid · 2013-02-12, 06:51 AM

Originally Posted by Baneblade

I trialed the Warden, it definitely hits hard already and is accurate in ADS. Kind of wish it at least had burst fire though. And more attachment options.

Yeah, i've been using the Warden with the HS/NV scope recently and it does do pretty good at around close-to-mid range (generally as long as you get the jump on someone, going semi auto against someone's automatic isn't pleasant), ie. the range the scope limits you to.

What i'd like to be able to do is put a 3.4x scope on it, but the velocity just isn't there to make it useable at that range.

ruskyandrei · 2013-02-12, 07:08 AM

Originally Posted by ShadetheDruid

Yeah, i've been using the Warden with the HS/NV scope recently and it does do pretty good at around close-to-mid range (generally as long as you get the jump on someone, going semi auto against someone's automatic isn't pleasant), ie. the range the scope limits you to.

What i'd like to be able to do is put a 3.4x scope on it, but the velocity just isn't there to make it useable at that range.

I have successfully sniped/counter-sniped with a 6x scope and the Warden, though it's not easy and you'll need a good, safe position (great for when your faction has the Crown and you just want to relax and snipe with your engineer :P )
It can be shockingly satisfying killing an infiltrator at 100+m with it.

The Truesight 4x can work too without being completely unusable at closer ranges.

That said, the rifle absoulutely needs a buff to bullet speed and possibly damage too.

As it is, I prefer using my slug ammo Mauler for mid range "sniping"

Thunderhawk · 2013-02-12, 07:36 AM

I have teh VS version (Eidolon or whatever its called) but always seem to use my Pulsar LSW for all encounters for some reason.

I just havent found a situation where I thought to myself "oh man i wish I pulled the Eidolon out for this fight"...

... EVER

Rolfski · 2013-02-12, 05:09 PM

These rifles definitely need a general increase in bullet velocity and a high speed ammo option.

The general increase needed in bullet velocity goes for most sniper rifles as well actually.
Sniper rifles and battle rifles having a significant lower bullet velocity than many LMG's and AR's doesn't make any sense to me.

Quovatis · 2013-02-12, 05:36 PM

The damage fall-off it what makes the battle rifles completely useless. The damage is ok, but they need to remove the drop-off. I played with the eidolon a bit, but when it takes 11+ shots to kill something at medium range, it's quite a joke. A carbine on single-shot mode does almost the same damage and is much more versatile.

Mordicant · 2013-02-12, 05:42 PM

I sometimes pull the warden but something just seems off about it. I think it needs a little more punch. I would trade magazine size for more damage.

Sirisian · 2013-02-12, 05:42 PM

I use the VS one exclusively on my engineer. The damage drop off has been brought up a lot. It's needs to be removed. Personally I'd prefer they make all of the battle rifles identical since as a VS player it's really easy to land headshots with ours with a bit of practice. I can't say I've ever fought against a battle rifle user that's landed headshots on me.

SGOniell · 2013-02-12, 05:46 PM

bullet drop and velocity suck on the warden. I barely use it anymore. And yes, more attachments would be great.

ShadetheDruid · 2013-02-12, 07:03 PM

Originally Posted by Sirisian

I can't say I've ever fought against a battle rifle user that's landed headshots on me.

I get headshots with the Warden, but at range that tends to be entirely by accident (but if you happen to get the aim and timing right, you can get the bullets roughly in the same spot over and over). At mid range, it's a little better. They're still very accurate weapons, but at the ranges you can get decent shots off you're always going to be outdone by automatic weapons. Up close, you could easily get consistent headshots.. if you were really good at FPS games, unlike me.

In the end though, I don't think many people even use the things (so it's good they're getting a buff). Hard to really get a feel for how they are when used against you when there's not many of them around (I think i've maybe been killed by one battle rifle since they came out, across all my characters).

NotTheMomma · 2013-02-12, 08:33 PM

Originally Posted by Quovatis

The damage fall-off it what makes the battle rifles completely useless. The damage is ok, but they need to remove the drop-off. I played with the eidolon a bit, but when it takes 11+ shots to kill something at medium range, it's quite a joke. A carbine on single-shot mode does almost the same damage and is much more versatile.

I'll agree with that. I wouldn't mind if they eliminated the damage drop-off and reduced the recoil a significant amount.

I've gotten many assists and a few hundred kills with it (I want to like the Eidolon and have been good with semi-auto rifles in other games...), but, honestly, it's often limited to a kill-steal weapon at this point. I usually only pull it out in big battles where I can escape notice and shoot at enemies that are focusing on my allies 10-20 meters closer. And you've got to fire FAST to get kills and miss a lot due to the recoil and the damn world-shake from explosions. But, I'd say that I lose a straight up gunfight with a heavy (I use it on my heavy, too) at medium range probably 60-70% of the time, even sometimes when what draws his notice is that first careful headshot.

I'd say that it's justified to both reduce recoil and eliminate the damage drop-off -- OR pump the damage up, because the damage is not impressive at all. I sometimes get kills with 3 head shots (the ones that hit, that is) and sometimes with 6 bodyshots, but, for example, an experienced infiltrator will usually beat me at close range (5-6 meters) with a pistol, especially NC. I have the laser attachment (light off, of course), so I'm hitting most shots with a RIFLE and firing just as fast as a mag pistol arrrrgh ... the overall damage sucks, not just the dropoff, LOL.

krnasaur · 2013-02-13, 12:52 AM

Maybe its just me, but i love the battle rifle ( I play NC so the Warden)

And with practice headshotting at mid range gets easier.

But please remember the battle rifle is very skill based. Its semi auto, but if people learn to land hits with it, its DPS can get out of control very fast. Be wary of over-buffing it

ShadetheDruid · 2013-02-13, 04:24 AM

Originally Posted by NotTheMomma

And you've got to fire FAST to get kills and miss a lot due to the recoil and the damn world-shake from explosions.

I've been using mine with HS/NV scope recently and i've had more success with it, I think due to the way the scope works and how it gives you a better sense of stability. I find it easier to land shots consistently on a target with it, anyway. It just limits your range to medium at most.

Originally Posted by krnasaur

Maybe its just me, but i love the battle rifle ( I play NC so the Warden)

Yeah, don't get me wrong, I do love my Warden.

It's just as much a primary weapon choice for my HA as my Anchor. It just has that feeling that it's not performing as well as it should at its supposed role (or as well as some of the other weapons in that role that aren't even made for it).