Hardware augmentation: Is it cheating? - Page 2

Bags · 2013-03-02, 12:18 PM

Originally Posted by Ghoest9

How is manually changing your DPI cheating?

Do you even know what DPI is?

anyone who changes sensitivity in options is cheating too

Tatwi · 2013-03-02, 12:24 PM

Originally Posted by Bags

anyone who changes sensitivity in options is cheating too

Changing the options available in the game is within the parameter set by the developer, which is obviously not cheating.

Changing the way your hardware operates (in this case, the rate at which the mouse tracks movement) to achieve results that are not available within the game's settings is pretty much the definition of an exploit.

ChipMHazard · 2013-03-02, 12:28 PM

Originally Posted by Tatwi

Changing the way your hardware operates (in this case, the rate at which the mouse tracks movement) to achieve results that are not available within the game's settings is pretty much the definition of an exploit.

But you can basicly achieve the same sensitivity by tweaking the ingame options as you would by using on-the-fly adjustable DPI, it's just easier and it gives you more precise control over your overall sensitivity. You can still do it from within the game itself though, just not as fast.

Bags · 2013-03-02, 12:35 PM

I can't get a sensitivity I like in game easier for me to use my 400 / 4000 DPI settings.

Maybe if vehicles/infantry/air/menus had different dpi like they should I wouldn't need to but this is just poor design.

Sturmhardt · 2013-03-02, 12:39 PM

Originally Posted by Tatwi

Sorry for confusing matters, as I was referring to two separate things.

1. The MM07 mouse thread, which is hardware augmentation via DPI adjustment. There are other mice with other automatic features.

2. A thread from a week or so ago where mouse macro software was used to automatically move the cursor down to the left when a button was pressed, thus removing recoil.

I personally feel that both of these things are forms of cheating, as they negate the intended parameters of the game.

1. Is totally okay, I don't see a reason why that should be a bad thing. You can change the sensitivity according to your needs, whatever the situation demands. my mouse supports it, but I don't use it. You still have to play the game.

2. Is cheating. A no recoil hack would do the same.

.sent via phone.

Bags · 2013-03-02, 12:44 PM

I wonder when we're going to reach "Better hardware = mre fps = advantage = ban better components!"

Ghoest9 · 2013-03-02, 12:46 PM

Originally Posted by Tatwi

Changing the options available in the game is within the parameter set by the developer, which is obviously not cheating.

Changing the way your hardware operates (in this case, the rate at which the mouse tracks movement) to achieve results that are not available within the game's settings is pretty much the definition of an exploit.

You are aware that you can buy mice with a wide range of static DPI setting?
Which setting is fair according to you?

What you are saying is as stupid as someone saying that having a 5 button mouse is cheating.

Tatwi · 2013-03-02, 12:55 PM

Originally Posted by ChipMHazard

But you can achieve the same sensitivity by tweaking the ingame options as you would by using on-the-fly adjustable DPI, it's just easier and it gives you more precise control over your overall sensitivity. You can still do it from within the game itself though, just not as fast.

Well, then no, you can't get the same effect using the settings provided in the game by the developer.

Originally Posted by Bags

I can't get a sensitivity I like in game easier for me to use my 400 / 4000 DPI settings.

Maybe if vehicles/infantry/air/menus had different dpi like they should I wouldn't need to but this is just poor design.

So it's cool to just go ahead and fix "poor design" client side, because the developers don't know what they are doing and you're smart? Cool! Let's let people use SweetFX to remove the fog from Esamir, that's the same thing, right? Just fixing "poor design". Oh wait, that's a ban-able offense. Huh.

Seems there is quite the double standard when it comes to using mouse hardware augmentation to step outside of the in-game parameters (and usage), which is odd given that the most important part of a FPS is pointing the cross hairs over the target.

Ghoest9 · 2013-03-02, 01:07 PM

Look Tatwi is ignoreing the most basic flaw in his whine - there is no standard mouse DPI - which setting is fair and whicgh are cheating?

ChipMHazard · 2013-03-02, 01:22 PM

Originally Posted by Tatwi

Well, then no, you can't get the same effect using the settings provided in the game by the developer.

No, you basicly can. Instead of switching between different DPI settings on your mouse you could, if you so wanted, go into the ingame settings and tweak the sensitivity. There's also different sensitivity settings for looking and aiming, as an example. Seems like your issue has more to do with being able to change your DPI when you wish. What I meant about more precise didn't have anything to do with the mouse itself being more precise, but you can change each DPI setting according to your ingame sensitivity thus being able to basicly switch between settings that you have tweaked to your liking.

When I write basicly it's because it still comes down to the hardware itself. You won't be able to achieve as high a sensitivity with a 800 DPI mouse as you would with a 5600 DPI mouse, then of course there is precision which is generally speaking better at a lower DPI because you need to move your mouse more to see the same change onscreen.
But you can't start banning players because of the hardware they use. Different mice have different DPI and many allow you to change between different DPI settings so you don't have to buy more than one mouse for different tasks. What's next? Mouse response time?

I should also note that Windows allows you to increase or decrease mouse sensitivity.

james · 2013-03-02, 01:31 PM

Its not cheating, its the same argument that was going around on cod and foot steps. The equipment does not make a player, the player skill does.

spuntron · 2013-03-02, 01:45 PM

Mouse DPI settings and on the fly DPI changing capabilities can help a player's performance, but it does not make them BETTER. The player still aims, the DPI just opens the door for the player to fully utilize their capabilities in-game.

It's akin to an HD monitor versus an old 12" CRT. Having higher visible clarity may increase your performance, but it doesn't make you a better player.

I hope people understand what I'm saying with that. People already have a certain skill-set and capability, but these tools only open up the potential for better utilization of skill and capability, because in the end it's still the player that's in control of what happens. It's not akin to writing a script that does something for you.

Hamma · 2013-03-02, 01:55 PM

Adjustable DPI mice are not cheating - pretty much because everyone has one.

Macros to decrease recoil? That's starting to get a bit questionable there.

psijaka · 2013-03-02, 02:40 PM

I use a Logitech G700 moiuse which enables me to change dpi on the fly if I wish, and also has a load of extra buttons that I have mapped to the keyboard for weapon changes, grenade, melee, spot, ability. And it is a very comfortable fit for my hand; no cramp even after hours of play. This is a matter of ergonomics; I still have to press the buttons.

However, the use of any kind of macro crosses the line, IMO, and IS cheating.

Assist · 2013-03-02, 03:00 PM

Originally Posted by Tatwi

Over on the official forums a lot of people talk about using various mice that allow them to change their DPI on the fly, some with mouse driver software that automatically adjusts based on one's movement. Others outright suggest that pressing a button on their mouse to overcome recoil is not cheating, because hey, "the software came with my mouse", so they say.

How do you feel about this?

Personally, I think it defeats the intended balance of the game play mechanics and as a result, it is cheating.

Have a look at my stats. I play this game using a normal Microsoft Comfort Curve 2000 keyboard, a Dell mouse from 2004 (which is very smooth on the bottom now after all these years!), a Core2 Q8200/GTS450/8GB DDR2 RAM computer, and the world's worst "highspeed" internet (commecial 802.11g where 90ms ping is fantastic and 150ms is normal, but the packet loss and randomness is maddening, let alone the God damned deep packet inspection throttling...). I often only get 10 to 25 FPS, with frequent complete stoppages of frames (*sigh* flying is great, trying to shoot things is shoot>0 FPS>crash...) in large fights, yet I somehow manage to be beat people 1 vs. 1 and even sometimes 3 vs. 1. As a result, I can't help but feel sorry for people who feel the need to augment their lack of skill with hardware and software crutches.

So yeah, when I kill you 1 vs 1, despite your handicaps, it's because you're bad and you should feel bad.

Seriously though, without a level playing field stats and any notion of "e-sports" seem pretty meaningless. What do you think?

Hardware augmentation?
Short answer: no
Long answer : no

Software augmentation?
Short answer: Yes
Long answer : If the developers think it's ok to use macros, no.