Lancer makes zero sense.... - Page 2

WSNeo · 2013-03-21, 08:07 PM

Originally Posted by DeltaGun

All weapons are better when 5 people are firing them at once. Lancer is not special in this regard. You'll have to try harder.

^This.

Have you ever come across The Enclave's Decimator defense? It's pretty ridiculous.

Rumblepit · 2013-03-21, 08:33 PM

Originally Posted by WSNeo

You DO realize that TR will be dominating the skies with the Striker regardless, just like they did in PS1 right? All you need is more than one Striker and any ESF/Lib will be screwed. Keep in mind that there are no incoming missile warnings so you can bluff aircraft into bugging it without questioning what type of missile is headed their way. As it stands, I'm pretty sure TR will have the strongest anti vehicle ESL with that burst fire mode. The NC will have the most annoying, and without cloak bubbles on AMSes, you will never keep an AMS alive with Phoenix rockets scouting the area constantly. Keep in mind that the game is not supposed to be asymmetric, how you engage each empire if supposed to be vastly different.

lol nice try.... why dont you see more people using lockons? because EVERYONE and their ALT has either smoke, stealth , or flares. AV turret and burster are the top AV weapons tr have in their arsenal. this will not change with the arrival of the striker.atm lockons deter thats it, you got that part right.but i can deter anything i want with my anilator , but if i want to kill air or armor, ill use bruster and AV turret.

i guess i could be wrong, but with some many cons to using the weapon i just dont see it being viable.you have to maintain a lock first of all. this in itself creates many problems. someone walks in front of you, lock broken, someone drives or flies in front of your target, lock broken, if the air or armor breaks line of site, lock broken, flares lock broken,smoke lock broken. you see my point?

DeltaGun · 2013-03-21, 08:47 PM

Can we please stay on topic? This thread is about the Lancer... not the Striker.

Rumblepit · 2013-03-21, 08:51 PM

Originally Posted by DeltaGun

Can we please stay on topic? This thread is about the Lancer... not the Striker.

just saying...... grass is looking much greener over there atm. the way i see it, vs and nc got buffed to defend against armor and air. we got a different version of something already in game ,and it just so happens to have a boat load of counters.

Aaron · 2013-03-21, 09:31 PM

Originally Posted by DeltaGun

All weapons are better when 5 people are firing them at once. Lancer is not special in this regard. You'll have to try harder.

Well, the lancer is sort of like a sniper rifle. If you use it in a group, and generally hit the same target at the same time, you could kill it without giving it a one second thought to retreat. That's what I had in mind.

DeltaGun · 2013-03-21, 09:46 PM

Originally Posted by Aaron

Well, the lancer is sort of like a sniper rifle. If you use it in a group, and generally hit the same target at the same time, you could kill it without giving it a one second thought to retreat. That's what I had in mind.

That's true, the enemy will not have much of a warning as with some other launchers.

CasualCat · 2013-03-21, 10:04 PM

Originally Posted by DeltaGun

That's true, the enemy will not have much of a warning as with some other launchers.

They are thinking about giving it a warning though (I hope they don't), and in theory you could accomplish a similar effect with combined phoenixes.

Rothnang · 2013-03-21, 10:33 PM

When it comes to how much damage a weapon does to aircraft it seems to be the general idea that the harder something is to hit with the more damage it does.

That's why tank cannons and dumbfire launchers do insane amounts of damage to aircraft.

I really hate that because it makes flying a Liberator really suicidal if you want to do fun stuff with it. Unfortunately hitting a Liberator with a dumbfire rocket or tank gun is only hard when you use the Liberator for high altitude bombing.

DeltaGun · 2013-03-21, 11:41 PM

Originally Posted by CasualCat

They are thinking about giving it a warning though (I hope they don't), and in theory you could accomplish a similar effect with combined phoenixes.

Plus they don't require line of sight. You theoretically could wipe out entire tank columns without being vulnerable to retribution.

Yeah the Lancer is looking more and more dissapointing, lol.

Rbstr · 2013-03-22, 12:17 AM

The phoenix has a very long TTK. And like you said, all guns are good in large groups. If you've got the dozens of people you'd need to kill a squad of tanks in 1 or 2 volleys of phoenixes from behind cover...more power too you.

The lancer might not do enough damage, or may have a bit too long charge time, IMO.
Characterizing it as disappointing makes no sense yet.
It's completely understandable why they'd want something with such high velocity to do less damage to aircraft (it was obvious that there's some kind of damage nerf when it hits aircraft vs. ground vehicles). We're going to be able to take real shots at more than just close/hovering aircraft with the gun. It can't just wreck an ESF's shit because he wasn't bobbing and weaving like a mad man all the time.
It looks like it does more damage to a tank/sundy per shot than an S1, nearly deci levels, and it carries 6 full-charges of that damage, unlike the deci with 4.

If you start the clock at the first hit on target, the lancer can do two full power hits in 1.7 seconds before the deci can much more reliably at much greater ranges.

Rothnang · 2013-03-22, 12:31 AM

All things considered, I'm glad that I'm a Vanu Liberator pilot, because the Lancer is the ESL I want to face the least in a Liberator. I don't think it's the most powerful of the three, but it's the one that gives the target the least counterplay.

The Striker is going to be the most OP I think in the meanwhile. While the phoenix is really powerful, when Higby showcased it he barely managed a 90° turn during its flight time, so it's not that bad really. The striker on the other hand is basically several Annihilators strapped together, and Annihilator squads were already one of the main things really tarding up the game.

Also "Everyone has smoke or flares so lockons are bad" is an idiotic argument. Everyone is FORCED to have smoke or flares because of lockons more like.

Tenhi · 2013-03-22, 12:42 AM

The thing about sniping is that the Lancer has this large glowy trail. If you look at the Vid that Higby posted yesterday you can see it a little bit. With that thing you cant hide at all. So setting up on some hill and sniping? Nope.

And they were/are thinking about adding a "here I am"-effect for the charging <_<

Edit: And an OT edit. With the Striker you can lock-on, wait for flares, reaquire and then shoot. Or you can shoot 1 Rocket and then the other 4. Basically it should be pretty easy to bait enemies into using their flares.

Rothnang · 2013-03-22, 12:44 AM

And then you go FUUUU when it leads to a spawnroom shield.

bpostal · 2013-03-22, 12:50 AM

Originally Posted by WSNeo

...Striker...can bluff aircraft into bugging it without questioning what type of missile is headed their way...The NC will have the most annoying, and without cloak bubbles on AMSes, you will never keep an AMS alive with Phoenix rockets scouting the area constantly. Keep in mind that the game is not supposed to be asymmetric, how you engage each empire if supposed to be vastly different.

That was my favorite part of the Striker. Faking out aircraft with zero ammo.

That said, I imagine I'll be too busy bitching about the Phoenix to complain about the lancer so if, for whatever reason, it turns out to be OP? I probably won't notice.

Right up until my vehicle explodes for absolutely no apparent reason.

Wahooo · 2013-03-22, 02:13 AM

I really need to use these some and see, but at first glance they seem to have emulated the elements these had in PS1 pretty well.

Striker = easy mode to use, feels cheap to get killed by it... BUT you shoot a LOT without getting kills... as was pointed out scares vehicles away. Seems it will have the same roll in PS2.

Peenix? Annoying as fuck. HATE getting killed while using it, HATE getting killed by it. Not OP but in PS1 was definitely one of the most annoying things in game. In PS2 with increased damage to infantry from AV weapons? It might even be more annoying... still not OP though, I hope to snipe many many peenix users.

Lancer? The AV sniper. How is that not awesome? It takes a bit of practice, i'm not sold on the big AV trail but at the same time a big issue I have in the game is not knowing where the fuck rockets are coming from a lot of the time. If this thing could 1 shot air with the charge up? Are you serious? How OP that would be? And I'm someone that is pro AA and anti-air in general. Use them, it seems in use they will operate a lot like the PS1 lancer. One of the most fun and satisfying weapons to use in the game. It will kill just fine, and of all three I expect more complaints about the Lancer being OP than either of the other two.