The case for automated turrets

[Figment]

Originally Posted by Rothnang

Well, there we have it, if Sturmhardt agrees with me I think it cancels out Ghost and Figment agreeing.

Actually we don't really agree on this on every level. And you're not listening to reason.



I've been very clear about what about this is bad: having any type of turret target any type of unit. I've been very clear about why the PS1 version worked and why the PS2 versions under the rules you stated in the OP would differ from this to the extend it would be detrimental to gameplay experience.


And I haven't ever seen a turret in this game stand in between me and getting into the base. Manned or otherwise. All you'd be doing is forcing more AP/AV ammo. I've also made it clear that it's unfair to unit types that can't do AP/AV damage to get targeted by AI units. Futhermore, I'm under the impression that people die enough as is and with this low TTK having turrets firing at will doesn't make for improved gameplay.




Now, if you're going to say they would only auto-target large units within a certain radius and return fire when engaged, we could consider talks. But AI or AV wall turrets firing aren't quite the same as a field of Spitfire turrets and you shouldn't treat these kind of implementations as lightly as you did.

[Rothnang]

I think it would be reasonable to give turrets a very short target range for infantry unless it attacks them first. The point of having automated turrets obviously isn't peeople getting sniped by cannons while merely just scouting the area around a base.

I'm not talking implementation anyways, that's the devs job and they will make sure its not awfully done. My main concern is that turret grids in their current state are too extensive to ever be fully manned, and turrets really have no serious survivability.

[Figment]

Originally Posted by Rothnang

My main concern is that turret grids in their current state are too extensive to ever be fully manned,

It is unlikely the entire defense ring has to be constantly manned too. But that doesn't mean they have to engage every threat. The PS1 turrets functioned primarily as an alert and barely killed any but the most damaged and careless of units due to their low damage output. The PS2 turrets don't have a low damage output, if a tank drives past an AV turret in its current condition, it would get two-shot (completely incomparable to the PS1 situation in terms of damage).

One of my concerns here is overkill. Another concern is that since you can actually hijack turrets, they become easy exp leeches for infils and the defender will actually be forced to kill them. This is what happened a lot during the viral days in PS1, since not that many players had the anti-viral certification.


The appeal to man them is worse though and ties in a lot with what's written in response to the quote below. The appeal to repair them even more atrocious due to lack of cover while doing so (turret repairing engineers are primary sniper and High Explosives bait after all).

and turrets really have no serious survivability.

Turret survivability is low indeed. They are static targets and have significant rotation, suppression and depression angle issues (and often face further angle and view obstructions by buildings, rocks and trees). Combine that with low health due to everything having to be low TTK (and within the limit of a single non-certed AV carrying player) and it's not very surprising they die quickly.

[Maarvy]

Originally Posted by Chaff

.
Like-it-or-not, a Base-of-the-Future (with "futuristic" turrets) should have some AI .... AND should be programmed to terminate any "enemy" target with extreme prejudice.
......NOT being able to strolll right up to a giant base & get free donuts & pancakes as you walk in is nothing to rail against.
.

If there was some deffensive exp then people would man the fucking manual turrets we have now . Undeffended bases are a symptom of a piss poor meta game and they should remain that way ( undefended ) until its fixed .

This auto turret shit is a bad idea imo .

What a futuristic turret should logicaly do and what they should do in regards to fun gameplay are 2 different things all together . Adding auto turrets is basicly sticking a bandaid over the glaring gunshot wound of a problem that bases remain undeffended once taken 90% of the time .

[Maarvy]

Originally Posted by Rothnang

I think it would be reasonable to give turrets a very short target range for infantry unless it attacks them first. The point of having automated turrets obviously isn't peeople getting sniped by cannons while merely just scouting the area around a base.

I'm not talking implementation anyways, that's the devs job and they will make sure its not awfully done. My main concern is that turret grids in their current state are too extensive to ever be fully manned, and turrets really have no serious survivability.

the devs will make sure its not awfully done ...

GG

That made me laugh , +1 comedy gold star

[Rothnang]

Originally Posted by Figment

It is unlikely the entire defense ring has to be constantly manned too. But that doesn't mean they have to engage every threat.

The problem with something like having a big wall be your defensive perimeter in Planetside 2 is that due to low rendering range and extremely mobile units it takes more people to defend than to attack. Let's say 1 LA wants to go over the wall, he just runs to the wall and jumps over. The only way he can be stopped is if someone waits on top of the wall. If the base has 5, 6 different walls it now takes 5 or 6 people to even have a chance to make the wall count, because they can't possibly know where the LA will come from, won't be informed when he comes from any side they aren't covering, and wouldn't be able to respond fast enough to stop him if they aren't already there either.

There is simply no way to make a huge defensive perimeter like that work in any meaningful way without automation, and it also needs to at some point shoot at infantry.


The whole idea with the turret grid shouldn't be that the turrets actually kill the attackers, they just force them to fight back, delaying them for a while so that the defenders can muster a response to the intrusion.

If AV turrets massacring infantry is such a huge problem maybe their splash can be reduced as well, though I think that was already done once, and they really aren't that great against infantry anymore.