The Return of BFRs??? - Page 8

maradine · 2013-04-10, 08:30 PM

Funny, I thought I was being quite rational in explaining my preferences. I'm sorry you don't agree with them. Calling them invalid, however, makes you look like a toolshed. Cheers, mate.

PoisonTaco · 2013-04-10, 08:31 PM

I understand that BFR's ruined the original Planetside, but don't just dismiss anything that looks like a walker. With the art shown by the OP it reminds me more of the walkers from Battlefield 2142 than the BFR's from Planetside. Granted I played way more 2142 than Planetside, but that's besides the point.

In 2142 the walkers were a great addition. They were mostly anti-infantry vehicles as the higher elevation gave you lots of opportunities to pick people off. You could take on other vehicles with the walkers but generally a good tank driver could kill you no problem. The 2nd seat in the walkers was more of an AA position and was quite effective at keeping aircraft away from a point.

If they introduced walkers to PS2 I'd be open to the idea so long as they're implemented right. All that would be left is Titan mode!

Ait'al · 2013-04-10, 08:36 PM

I think they could be good. If the angle is right having more height to shoot from could be good for various thing. Just needs to be done correctly. Good for hill humping.. to help get the other tanks in!

Like I said do 1/2 AV damage 2x infantry vulnerability and give it the right ammount of HP for staying power so it can kill stuff enough to help in groups as forward fighters. Like the maxes of the vehicles world. But based on partial versatility and advantages for various situations and terrain.

BFRs didn't kill the game. The game was long dead from endless bad game changes(balances! 8\ Which of course were very unbalanced!). It was just a crappy nail in the crappy coffin the game turned into. i actually had a lot of fun in BFRs. Had some really good runs that lasted hours holding off constant heavy base assaults, both alone and as people came to help. No lack of enjoyment or praises from my gunners either. 8p

MrMak · 2013-04-10, 08:54 PM

Originally Posted by maradine

Funny, I thought I was being quite rational in explaining my preferences. I'm sorry you don't agree with them. Calling them invalid, however, makes you look like a toolshed. Cheers, mate.

I scaned the entire thread and all your post come down to "NO becouse BFRs".

So yeah id say a complete and utter lack of any argumentation beyond "Planetside 1 had something somewhat visualy similar and it was very bad, so this will inevitably be just as bad" is invalid.

Now if you were to give an actual reason why a small, slow, lightly armored vehicle designed to move in rough terrain (and that is exactly what the author intended) is such an incredibly bad idea that it would bring about the end of days, I would be very much interested

Hamma · 2013-04-10, 10:29 PM

Originally Posted by maradine

The BFR introduction and its ancillary mechanics were a critical factor in ruining what many here consider to be one of the all-time greats in gaming history. If you were in that boat, you might have a strong visceral reaction, too.

I concur with your assessment of the situation.

Gatekeeper · 2013-04-11, 03:33 AM

BFRs damaged PS1, but they were by no means the biggest problem it had.

IMO massive bugs early on, the incredibly steep learning curve, the subscription cost, the total lack of marketing and support and the botched Core Combat expansion were the things that really killed PS1.

BFRs were just something that really pissed off the small minority that actually stuck with the game despite all those other problems

Mietz · 2013-04-11, 07:01 AM

The question with these "mechs" is how they would handle.

i.e. what kind of offensive capability and what kind of offensive mobility would they feature.

A strafing target with strong firepower is a problem in this game, see Magriders and how everyone thinks they are superduperOP because they can strafe (open for debate).

If this kind of mech would function essentially like in HAWKEN by having superior offensive mobility and the ability to turn their cockpit (like the TR concept shows), it would turn them into the dominant ground unit.

Sledgecrushr · 2013-04-11, 07:14 AM

Originally Posted by Mietz

The question with these "mechs" is how they would handle.

i.e. what kind of offensive capability and what kind of offensive mobility would they feature.

A strafing target with strong firepower is a problem in this game, see Magriders and how everyone thinks they are superduperOP because they can strafe (open for debate).

If this kind of mech would function essentially like in HAWKEN by having superior offensive mobility and the ability to turn their cockpit (like the TR concept shows), it would turn them into the dominant ground unit.

If they combine heavy firepower with lots of armor and ultimate mobility then we are fucked. If the high mobility is tied to some light armament a little armor then its more balanced against its higher mobility. I dont know this thing might be slow as shit.

Gatekeeper · 2013-04-11, 07:22 AM

I agree with the earlier suggestion of a scout-walker type mech.

You could make that highly mobile and arm it with a tank secondary gun without making it overpowered.

The big problem with BFRs was always that they were highly mobile super-heavy tanks, without requiring any more crew than the regular tanks. Which obviously tends to break balance all over the place.

Infernalis · 2013-04-11, 07:48 AM

BFRs were horrible in PS1, both in term of gameplay and art design. On the other hand Walkers in BF2142 were really good and balanced.

The thing is, what can they bring to gameplay seeing as we already have little mechs (MAXes)? Highly mobile light tank? No real need with the Lightning and seeing we have no urban maps.

almalino · 2013-04-11, 08:08 AM

Originally Posted by Infernalis

BFRs were horrible in PS1, both in term of gameplay and art design. On the other hand Walkers in BF2142 were really good and balanced.

The thing is, what can they bring to gameplay seeing as we already have little mechs (MAXes)? Highly mobile light tank? No real need with the Lightning and seeing we have no urban maps.

Mech on a really high legs to be able to shot people over the walls around the bases

Would be soo kool!

almalino · 2013-04-11, 09:12 AM

Oh, they could not add dedicated mechs into the game. Just make my Vanguard a transformer that could transform into the BFR and back at any time

I would be soo happy

Mietz · 2013-04-11, 10:28 AM

Originally Posted by Sledgecrushr

If they combine heavy firepower with lots of armor and ultimate mobility then we are fucked. If the high mobility is tied to some light armament a little armor then its more balanced against its higher mobility. I dont know this thing might be slow as shit.

High mobility is essentially a few magnitudes higher in balance than raw damage output or armor because avoidance is far more useful in this game (see ESF, Mag, vs other MBT/Liberator)

The questions are:
a. would the mechs be treated as vehicles?
a1. would the lock on launchers be able to lock on to them?
b. do they strafe?
c. How high is the weapons platform situated? (shooting over shields, locking down vertical spawn shield exits in spawn-rooms)
d. do small weapons damage them?
e. can they be knocked over?
f. armament?

To hit a mag with a dumbfire launcher is hard unless you are -very- close and if the mech has a rotating turret it essentially negates the 80° vision impairment of magriders.

Essentially the concern is to not create the equivalent of an ESF on the ground with high mobility, low armor and massive firepower.

Huntsab · 2013-04-11, 10:39 AM

This game is nothing like PS1 the implementation of Mechs will not impact the game like it did back in the day. Different mechanics and I think the loss of surgile quad shot did a lot of damage too. People left en mass cause they couldn't sprint up and quadshot you before your screen ever displayed them, any more.

WSNeo · 2013-04-11, 11:06 AM

Originally Posted by Huntsab

This game is nothing like PS1 the implementation of Mechs will not impact the game like it did back in the day.

Like hell it won't!

BFRs completely raped outdoor infantry pushes in fields, mountains, etc. Pretty much, if you weren't in the base or in the woods. You were fucked. You see infantry coming from a general direction? Better go farm them until we can find the AMS that they are coming from. Pushed the enemy to their base but can't seem to get into the courtyard? Better jumpjet on top of the base roof and pick off all the defenders on the walls! Enemy massing tanks? Have you and a squadmate pull two BFRs to see who can kill the most tanks by bunny hopping on TOP of them (instant kill if you landed on a tank).

I literally left because of the first reason given. The mechanics were broken as fuck. These things mentally scarred a lot of people who loved this game to death, me included.