Is Rotary/Turbolaser too good against infantry?

[RLxJame]

Originally Posted by Figment

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PS: what feels like instant death by AA to you is about 40 times longer than what air does to infantry. IMO - since air is so fast to weave in and out of areas - AA is the only short TTK that should be allowed.

No offence Figgie but according to your stats page you only have 4 kills with the reaver in more than 2 hours flying it.

From a pilots of perspective the biggest problem with air/AA balance is the render ranges. You have to get so close to the ground before your targets even appear on your screen.

Aircraft have been nerfed so much since launch (which is hilarious since all these issues persisted in beta yet they released the game anyway!) and any further nerf they might as well be removed from the game.

[Snoopy]

Originally Posted by Figment

That's bullshit.

Don't come in here proclaiming it is easy to hit air with slow speed, high gravity effect dumbfire AV on any aircraft flying remotely low. Even a Phoenix can't lead that well. Unless you're a crap pilot and hover for a long time in place without even making minor adjustments to height and don't strafe in random directions at all.

Come on. Even I haven't been hit by AV dumbfire yet and I'm considering myself a horrible pilot.

You'd be surprised how many idiotic pilots you can get with a dumb fire rocket. Yeah, you mightn't get them every time but once they see the rocket fly by their screen, they'll hit the thrusters and afterburners and be out of there. By which time, you'd have called for some body in your squad to go AA max and get rid of him when/if he comes back to try his luck again...

[Figment]

Originally Posted by RLxJame

No offence Figgie but according to your stats page you only have 4 kills with the reaver in more than 2 hours flying it.

I don't like going after ground targets, so I mostly use it as discardable transport (only killed a couple of aircraft), when I see infantry I need to tackle, I'll bail because it's more fun to have a fair fight. I've practiced the ESF in VR to see how easy it is to line up on a target. With hover certs, that's not too hard and you don't need a long line up to kill those targets. Sometimes spamming in their general direction even suffices. :/

I deliberately have not acquired shotguns either, nor do I use MAXes. That doesn't mean I wouldn't know what I could do with them.

[RLxJame]

Originally Posted by Figment

Yeah and it got buffed for no other reason than being better than the things mentioned by the OP, after all, it's supposed to be better than the AV version.

But AA MAXes aren't always available and it takes many seconds to kill air. Many more than its target needs to get kills and get away, ESPECIALLY when flying low (good pilots make use of buildings as cover and lock breakers).

I don't mind flares, I do mind extremely long lock on timers, having to to reload non-scoped and not being able to reacquire a lock after a flare has popped for several extra seconds that make no sense. After a flare is popped, targets should be immediately open to new locks.


PS: what feels like instant death by AA to you is about 40 times longer than what air does to infantry. IMO - since air is so fast to weave in and out of areas - AA is the only short TTK that should be allowed.

Originally Posted by Figment

I don't like going after ground targets, so I mostly use it as discardable transport (only killed a couple of aircraft), when I see infantry I need to tackle, I'll bail because it's more fun to have a fair fight. I've practiced the ESF in VR to see how easy it is to line up on a target. With hover certs, that's not too hard and you don't need a long line up to kill those targets. Sometimes spamming in their general direction even suffices. :/

I deliberately have not acquired shotguns either, nor do I use MAXes. That doesn't mean I wouldn't know what I could do with them.

Lining up targets in VR and actually doing it while under live fire is completely different.

I am not gunning after you deliberately Figgie but one of the things that vexes me most in this game are the cry babies who complain about aircraft yet can't fly them.

I am seeing less and less aircraft flying these days. On occasion I can be the only NC pilot compared to 50+ troops on the ground. I have the reaver nearly maxed out (full flares + full composite armour) and I can still find it difficult to survive. I can't imagine how new pilots feel in their rusty tin can of an aircraft. I feel that is a lot of the hostility towards (good) pilots because the average joe falls out the sky after 2 seconds so they (wrongly) feel that should happen to everyone.

[Lonehunter]

It's pretty hard to worry about all the AA, flak, Turrets, etc you all keep mentioning when it literally takes less then a second to kill an infantry. You don't have to hover, you don't have to be inside 300meters.

Hell I can squeeze off a few infantry rotary kills AS I'm running from flak or lock on lol, and still get away.

[Figment]

Originally Posted by Snoopy

You'd be surprised how many idiotic pilots you can get with a dumb fire rocket. Yeah, you mightn't get them every time but once they see the rocket fly by their screen, they'll hit the thrusters and afterburners and be out of there. By which time, you'd have called for some body in your squad to go AA max and get rid of him when/if he comes back to try his luck again...

AA MAX is overrated by pilots, got dual bursters myself and it really requires a bad pilot to quickly kill one. If they start evasive maneuvres once they get hit, you'll hardly manage to kill them unless you have several people on them. Especially in situations where you're locked into a confined area around or even in the spawnroom, these short TTKs make it impossible to break out. If your AA MAX dies, you are out of AA for a long time as handheld AA does not work well enough (takes too much time to get a lock and just deters an aircraft for a few seconds till lock was broken).


You're dismissing this too easily. We cannot assume idiotic pilots are the ones we balance around, you balance around averag pilots. Sure, I've killed air with tank shells, AV rockets and AV turrets. USUALY BY SHEER LUCK. The amount of missiles I've fired at them compared to the amount that hit are probably in the order of 1 out of every 50.

You cannot defend OP AI weaponry by stating that luck shots might win the day.

[Figment]

Originally Posted by RLxJame

Lining up targets in VR and actually doing it while under live fire is completely different.

You think I don't know the difference?

The difference is extremely marginal tbh (bit more recoil from getting hit - PROVIDED you get hit and really, leading a gun with this rate of fire and projectile speed is no different from aiming at a stationary target). Gunning a Harasser is harder because of random terrain, in ESFs you control all your movements.

It's not like you need to stay absolutely still to hit something. And with this TTK, all you need is a very short time, not even a second of lining up your target. Sorry, but I don't agree that it's completely different.

[PredatorFour]

IMO An AA calibre machine gun should definately tear infantry a new one. It is fine as it is.

[Neutral Calypso]

The real question is: Is Airhammer too good against ESFs?

[RLxJame]

Originally Posted by Figment

You think I don't know the difference?

The difference is extremely marginal tbh (bit more recoil from getting hit - PROVIDED you get hit and really, leading a gun with this rate of fire and projectile speed is no different from aiming at a stationary target). Gunning a Harasser is harder because of random terrain, in ESFs you control all your movements.

It's not like you need to stay absolutely still to hit something. And with this TTK, all you need is a very short time, not even a second of lining up your target. Sorry, but I don't agree that it's completely different.

Give it a try. I think you'll be surprised.

[Figment]

Originally Posted by RLxJame

Give it a try. I think you'll be surprised.

I think I won't. Came across plenty situations where I could have gone for the kill but like I said, went for the bailing. When there's no challenge, I don't do it.

Why do you think the people with the most kills have the most airtime?

[RLxJame]

Originally Posted by Figment

I think I won't. Came across plenty situations where I could have gone for the kill but like I said, went for the bailing. When there's no challenge, I don't do it.

Why do you think the people with the most kills have the most airtime?

There is a general correlation that the better FPS players are the best pilots also. Take peoples infantry accuracy and pilots will for the most part have a better stats also.

[Figment]

Originally Posted by RLxJame

There is a general correlation that the better FPS players are the best pilots also. Take peoples infantry accuracy and pilots will for the most part have a better stats also.

Typically, the tool provides at least half the "skills" to get kills (which is why it was called mossiefarming) and these players then get an ego that makes them think they're good.

In that order.

A lot of players look at K/D as a way of determining if someone is good at FPS games, few look at the amount of effort required for the playstyle. I can tell you know that a CQC infil is going to have a lower K/D than a HE tank. Does that mean the better FPS players are in tanks? Hardly.

Air have the most flexibility and the greatest firepower/player with all kinds of alterior bonuses in movement and agility while it is significantly harder to kill them than it is to kill others simply because the tool is hard to hit and lead and you can't even AoE splash it like you can ground units. This is why they get high K/Ds, not because better players gravitate to them.

Sorry James, but I'm not buying that statement that good players are per definition good flyboys or the other way around. Typically, the ones with the best scores are the ones using the cheapest of strategies and easiest of tools to get kills. This is true in any game you come across.

[Boildown]

Originally Posted by Neutral Calypso

The real question is: Is Airhammer too good against ESFs?

I used the Airhammer extensively since GU8, and its trash against ESFs now. The TTK is much better on the rotary. The only exception is if they let you kill them, i.e. don't maneuver as you shoot them at point blank range, in which case it doesn't really matter anyways, except the rotary would allow you to kill them from a safer distance.

The Airhammer IS superior to the rotary against Libs, Gals, and ground vehicles. The rotary is better against single infantry, the Airhammer better when spamming into groups of infantry (though honestly, that's suicidal).

If the Airhammer is supposed to be an anti-infantry weapon, they need to buff it in another way. I would never equip it to go "infantry hunting". The only time I would use it is when I'm Lib or Gal hunting.

And yes, I have the certs on both it and the rotary maxed out.

[RLxJame]

Originally Posted by Figment

Typically, the tool provides at least half the "skills" to get kills (which is why it was called mossiefarming) and these players then get an ego that makes them think they're good.

In that order.

A lot of players look at K/D as a way of determining if someone is good at FPS games, few look at the amount of effort required for the playstyle. I can tell you know that a CQC infil is going to have a lower K/D than a HE tank. Does that mean the better FPS players are in tanks? Hardly.

It all depends on your definition of "better FPS player". I was merely saying going on the principle that the person able to land the most bullets (i.e. most accurate) and has the best reaction skills will make the best pilots.

Basic maths will tell you that a player with an average accuracy of 22% is 6x more likely to kill someone with an accuracy of 17% (taking 7 bullets to kill which is pretty standard in PS2).

We could have a lengthy argument on the semantics of "good" PlanetSide 2 player. I merely put it out there that the best pilots are likely to be those with the best shooting skills.

Figgie. Honesty I don't have an axe to grind against you but it seriously annoys me when non-pilots, and especially those who never fly complain about air being op.

If you could prove that joe bloggs off the street could jump in an ESF and go around murdering everyone then I'd see your point. But the nerfs to aircraft have made it that only a select minority can really get the best out of aircraft now. If you still think aircraft are overpowered just suggest removing them from the game.