MeanWhile Free 2 Play are struggling, PAY 2 WIN Players are doing this with resources - Page 7

Lonehunter · 2013-07-10, 07:36 PM

This is such old news lol. I've had 40 everything since beta

EvilNinjadude · 2013-07-10, 10:19 PM

Originally Posted by Dreamcast

Their is "winning" in this game.

Sure the game never tells u "U Won"....but winning is measured by Success/Kills.

Something that Resources give you way better odds of.

The Equal theory I mentioned is to show you how it is in game power...If players are equal to each other, with equal gear...Guess what the one with the most resources can use the most tanks/planes....Which in turn effects a battles outcome.

Sorry but that is "winning" in the game....Their is absolutely 0 negatives about having more resources.

This is different then certs because you can have different sidegrade guns but you are still sacrificing something since is a sidegrade...at best Certs give u slight upgrades...and of course options that needs in game resources to use (C4,mines,etc)..Not really buying power IMO, that is true convenience.

Just because their isn't an End game doesn't mean their isn't winning in this game.

BTW If resources didn't matter than why isn't winning a continent 50% off infantry,air,vehicle resources?.....Because SOE will no that is way to OP for any Empire who has that.

I think my grasp of the English language just died a little. Please, for Christ's sake.

You know why I run out of resources? Because I have prox mines, tank mines, medkits, C4 AND both frag and concussion grenades. I haven't run out of a single one yet because I use them intelligently. I run low, yeah, sure. But have I ever properly run out? Nope.

What you probably do is
a. You take your C4 and actively look for vehicles to take out instead of only using consumables when you feel you really need to (Scarcity)
b. You've got so many damn consumable options and you spam all of them like there's no tomorrow; that's why you run out of resources.

Both ways, it's your fault. I love using tank mines now since they're more efficient than C4 and everyone loves using blockade armor nowadays.

Being F2P does not increase my options.
You're just bad at resource allocation and try to spam things like a paying player, but you can't afford to do. I could now insultingly deduce that your life consists of either relying on your parents or biting your nails until you paycheck arrives so you can spend it in a week instead of a month, but I won't do that. I'm not you.

I think the devs of this game deserve money. I haven't thrown my money at them yet, but I'm not adverse to the idea. I'll do it soon. But guess what: I won't be getting a membership, because I don't need one. UP YOURS, SUCKER!

finder · 2013-07-10, 10:32 PM

here is how I manage my resources...
Use air until is it gone, on every death buy infantry stuff,
then I use a MBT/lighting til my resources are gone, on every death buy infantry stuff,
play infantry, on every death buy infantry stuff, repeat.
I find focusing on one thing to fill up all the way and then stocking the next item helps. also try to conserve items if your stretched thin.

maradine · 2013-07-10, 10:35 PM

Originally Posted by EvilNinjadude

I think the devs of this game deserve money. I haven't thrown my money at them yet, but I'm not adverse to the idea. I'll do it soon. But guess what: I won't be getting a membership, because I don't need one. UP YOURS, SUCKER!

This was unnecessary. I expect a slightly higher horse from CDL.

Dougnifico · 2013-07-11, 12:03 AM

I pay lots of money... why am I not winning? Oh ya... I suck. Turns out skill is the deciding factor.

EvilNinjadude · 2013-07-11, 12:20 AM

Originally Posted by maradine

This was unnecessary. I expect a slightly higher horse from CDL.

I hope that was meant to be more funny than insulting.

Unfortunately I find the OP's trolling more insulting than funny. I take other people's stupidity as a personal insult.

Phreec · 2013-07-11, 09:28 AM

Originally Posted by EvilNinjadude

[...] and try to spam things like a paying player, but you can't afford to do.

That's kinda proving his point.

GeoGnome · 2013-07-11, 09:44 AM

So, I used to be somewhat open to the idea of the game becoming P2W based on trends we were seeing...

And then someone showed me a blatant P2W game.

400$ gems that stack, only payable for with cash, that are required to advance into higher level dungeons. The gems provide a level 4 boost. A level 4 boost, is a 40% improvement on damage. There are 12 levels of boosts... Each level is about 100$. The boost gems can be put on items... multiple gems can be put on each item.

There was another, where you rented permanent boosts to your character power, ontop of a gem system like what is detailed above. These permanent boosts? Yeah we're talking thousands of dollars a month for rental.

After comparing what people were saying about Planetside 2, to those examples, I figured "The lesser of evils" didn't do justice. I mean, what PS2 is doing isn't in the same ball park. It's not even the same league. Hell, they are different sports all together. It's more: "Please pay to get something faster"

Dragonskin · 2013-07-11, 10:07 AM

I'm also going to add this... yet again to a thread about P2W.

The people, like myself, that have boosts running bought either Alpha squad or 6 month memberships. It's rare for people to buy those standalone resource boosts when membership would be a better investment and comes with more perks.. assuming you play enough to justify the cost.

I didn't buy alpha squad for resources. That thought actually never crossed my mind until these threads started popping up. I bought Alpha squad for the extra gun for each class. Some of those alpha guns have proved to be extremely useful and my preferred weapon for the class. I also got the Alpha decal as well as the Alpha camos... back then there weren't many camos and those are unique. So I have the alpha booster running. It would have ran out a long time ago, but SOE decided to make them better because the boosters were originally trash. Again... didn't buy Alpha for resources...

I ended up buying a 6 month membership once alerts rolled out and server merges because at the time I was playing mostly on Mattherson and there were constant queues. So to bypass the queues I decided to get membership. It was also nice that they made the membership exclusive sales, granted 500 SC a month and increased EXP... again resources weren't a selling point because the other features out way the resource gain value in my opinion.

So.. now I have 2 boosters running. I rarely have resource issues.. and I shouldn't.. but it irks me that these P2W cry babies are trying to piss all over people that decided to give SOE money. I honestly could care less about resource boosts. Back when I just had the alpha boost I didn't have a NEED a resource boost or feel slighted by people that had resource specific boosts.

All resources do is allow you to have more options with your gameplay. It's convenience only. I can conveniently use whatever I have unlocked almost all the time.. unless I go spam crazy or start using multiple consumables across multiple characters then I rarely ever have a resource problem... convenience. Those resources may or may not have generated kills for me. Just because you have a consumable doesn't mean it will work to your advantage. People don't always run over mines. C4 isn't always detonated before the player is killed. Revive grenades don't always revive as many people as you hoped... depending on the number of medics around it might not actually revive anyone. Then lastly just because you have more medkits doesn't mean that you will always be able to heal up to win a fire fight.... there is absolutely no Pay 2 Win advantage. You can pay for convenience or cosmetic items.. but that is literally all you get with money.

TLDR:
I wrote a book and that is my last post in this thread about it. You aren't changing my mind about the game and clearly even logic fails to change your mind.

kubacheski · 2013-07-11, 11:51 AM

I love these discussions for some sadistic reason. Why do you say all F2P are struggling? The P2W mentality in PS2 is all in the definition of "winning" (insert Charlie Sheen accent). From what I can tell, people who play a lot don't really need a subscription. Think about it. If you're on all day long collecting resources and effectively managing the resources you do have, it's easy to never run out of consumables. If you get on for 30 minutes a day just to go grenade happy, you're gonna have to collect resources some other way to compensate.

Another problem is when you lack skill. If you constantly crash your vehicles or get blown up or it takes multiple grenades/C4 to kill someone/thing then you're expending more than you collect. Its only a matter of time before you're out and at a disadvantage (to both more skilled players and subscribers).

Some people pay to compensate for either not having the time, not managing the resources they collect with their time, or for their own lack of skill. Some out of courtesy to the devs, some for other perks, and others because it makes them feel that they're winning. Have you read others posts, having more camo's, guns, EXP faster, etc. makes them feel that they're "winning". Some subscribers think winning is grenading non-subscribers. If they're trying to get you to rage-quit or whine on the forums, they've just "won". Just because you have more grenades doesn't mean you'll exp faster. Just because you can pull more tanks/air/max doesn't mean you'll have more fun.

Suggestion: Change your playstyle. Find a few things you like and learn to rotate them. Enjoy getting headshots from sniping. Practice shooting while floating with your jetpack. Hack a terminal or turret while waiting for the base to switch instead of shooting at the ground. Run an AMS sundy. Practice your flying (don't some of us just suck at that? Personally, I can't get the feel of it). Don't do the same thing again and again and again and again. Try to find mulitple things that you enjoy besides running HA with lockon missile launcher and spamming grenades at infantry.

I don't have a sub and I don't play much and I suck. I'm familiar with pretty much all of the above situations - constantly running out of everything. Sometimes, when I get killed more frequently than I enjoy, I get in an aircraft just to kamikaze into the group that shot me (I said I was good at crashing aircraft). Sometimes I make it, sometimes I don't, but it's often more fun than getting grenade spammed by subscribers. I hate flying. And claymores at every doorway. And not getting the gun when I board a vehicle. And dirty Vanu.

It's a fucking game. Relax and just shoot something. Is your K/D ratio really that important to you? I just enjoy knowing there are no mobs. That every kill I make, there is someone pissed off on the other end at getting wacked by some lowbie who sucks. Although I see the kill cam more than they do, I know they look at my low BR on the occasion that I do get that long distance headshot. Kinda fun, makes me smile just writing about it. Oh and I feel like I'm "winning".

Dodgy Commando · 2013-07-11, 12:42 PM

Giraffe camo is blatantly Pay2Win.

'Nuff said...

EvilNinjadude · 2013-07-11, 03:19 PM

Originally Posted by Phreec

That's kinda proving his point.

By that I mean that he feels entitled to as many mines and grenades and C4 and vehicles as he wants, and feels they are vital to gameplay, and then complains when someone who has actually paid money for the game gets more resources.

You're not meant to spam things nonstop. Even paying players can't do that.
Maybe it's just because I run around with an Annihilator and enjoy reviving people and playing as infantry... or because I'm a bad tanker. But I don't feel that vehicles are really necessary in this game if you've certed into stuff like Striker/Annihilator and AV MANA turrets. They're free, FFS. They kill stuff real good and fast.
Yet everyone "needs more" vehicles and explosives because they can't find another way to counter them.

Also, see above for a real Pay 2 Win game. Lol. If you think Planetside 2 is Pay 2 Win, you need to go play some real Pay 2 Win games. Otherwise you'll sound like heartbroken 10-year-olds having an emotional outburst on facebook about the "love of their life".

kubacheski · 2013-07-11, 03:54 PM

Originally Posted by EvilNinjadude

By that I mean that he feels entitled to as many mines and grenades and C4 and vehicles as he wants, and feels they are vital to gameplay, and then complains when someone who has actually paid money for the game gets more resources.

feeling entitled is the key to people who complain about P2W in games like this. The fact of the matter is that it is P2W to a certain degree regardless of wether or not there's crap like Giraffe camo or not. The fact that SOE can get money off of Giraffe camo is quite amazing but that's beside the point, isn't it.

The degree of separation between subscribers and non-subscribers only gets larger the more time is spent in the game. The F2P model is based upon the fact that someone who pays can spend less time actually in game to get what they want. Its not that they can get more, just that they can get it faster or easier. The non-paying player will have to grind a lot more to get what they want. The fact that guns and other items can be gotten via in game currencies (certs and resources) is the way this (and all other F2P games) plays out. A non-subscriber has to be in game much longer to keep up with a subscriber.

Either way SOE gets something. Cash out of the sub or consistent population out of the non-subscriber. A non-subscriber that doesn't play much is at a distinct disadvantage, but that's choice. Your real life is more important than infantry resources for your grenades. Someone else has chosen to pay for that benefit so they can have more time in real life. Some people choose their real life over either option and deal with the lack of consumables.

It's simply your choice to have other priorities over getting infantry resources. If you want more resources, earn more by playing more, or pony up some cash if your time is better spent not playing as much, or quit complaining as it's your choice to not invest in getting resources. You're going to invest time or money to get what you want. Choose which. If you choose not to invest either, then you'll get no reward for it.

Its that simple.

EvilNinjadude · 2013-07-11, 04:31 PM

Originally Posted by kubacheski

feeling entitled is the key to people who complain about P2W in games like this. The fact of the matter is that it is P2W to a certain degree regardless of wether or not there's crap like Giraffe camo or not. The fact that SOE can get money off of Giraffe camo is quite amazing but that's beside the point, isn't it.

The degree of separation between subscribers and non-subscribers only gets larger the more time is spent in the game. The F2P model is based upon the fact that someone who pays can spend less time actually in game to get what they want. Its not that they can get more, just that they can get it faster or easier. The non-paying player will have to grind a lot more to get what they want. The fact that guns and other items can be gotten via in game currencies (certs and resources) is the way this (and all other F2P games) plays out. A non-subscriber has to be in game much longer to keep up with a subscriber.

Either way SOE gets something. Cash out of the sub or consistent population out of the non-subscriber. A non-subscriber that doesn't play much is at a distinct disadvantage, but that's choice. Your real life is more important than infantry resources for your grenades. Someone else has chosen to pay for that benefit so they can have more time in real life. Some people choose their real life over either option and deal with the lack of consumables.

It's simply your choice to have other priorities over getting infantry resources. If you want more resources, earn more by playing more, or pony up some cash if your time is better spent not playing as much, or quit complaining as it's your choice to not invest in getting resources. You're going to invest time or money to get what you want. Choose which. If you choose not to invest either, then you'll get no reward for it.

Its that simple.

I'll give a standing ovation for you. Anyone willing to join me?

Time is money. You either spend more time -- You're welcome to do that for all I care -- or you spend more money -- which SOE will thank you for, and by extension, me. Because I want SOE to get rewarded for making a game I enjoy that I haven't even paid anything for yet. People like OP come along with the attitude that they deserve just as much as a person who has actually paid, just because the game has the F2P business model. If he even remotely feels like paying money would enhance his experience, he immediately gets his panties in a twist.

Here's a scale of all business models in order of pay2winness.
- Extreme Pay2Win -- Real money buys you more direct power upgrades, gives you access to things F2P players could never get, and bashes F2Pers with lower quality of life which they can resolve by PAYING MONEY. I'm looking at you, WarZ.
- Pay2Win -- Real money buys you straight power upgrades and gives you access to things such as better guns, better quality of life, or just simple power and a better gaming experience.
- Free to play but you're not going to enjoy it -- Quality of life is directly tied to the amount of money you spend. That, or the game is focused on winning engagements exclusively and real money gives players more power. A minor case of this is if paying players only get small quality of life improvements.
- Free to play, pay to get things faster -- Hey look, this is where Planetside 2 is at now!
- Cosmetic-only Free to Play -- Something that only games with large userbases like LoL and TF2 can achieve: I know firsthand that in TF2, hats aren't as immersion-breaking as they would be in PS2 since TF2 is silly enough by itself (just look at the damn Demoman!) So Valve can sell hats and needs to sell nothing else, and enough people will buy hats.

Look how far down Planetside 2 is. Look at the reason it can't go lower: Not enough people playing, not enough of those willing to pay money for the STILL ONGOING DEVELOPMENT, and the difficulty of getting all cosmetics to mesh well with the game (some say it's already failing).

I personally am happy with where the game is at now. So should you be, unless you're either paying money and are still unsatisfied (thanks, and sorry) or are a complete nobhead (GTFO).

kubacheski · 2013-07-11, 07:09 PM

Originally Posted by EvilNinjadude

I'll give a standing ovation for you. Anyone willing to join me?

Thanks man. I've always seen F2P as just that free to PLAY, not play at the same quality as someone who does microtransactions, not play at the same level as someone who subscribes. You get to play and that's that. You want to play on equal terms with all others, then you gotta play a subscription only game. And guess what, sub-only model doesn't bring in the cash that multi-level subscriptions with microtransaction F2P models do. Why do you think virtually every AAA gaming company is going the F2P with subs and microtrans direction on their persistent worlds? To be nice to the players? Get real man. It brings in more cash. Subscribers are always gonna sub and they glean cash off of the people who do microtrans cause they don't want to pump out the full sub price for whatever reason.

F2P players only boost the populations so that the paying customers have more warm bodies to slay.

You want F2P, get back into ANSI mudding. I know a few good ones if you need a recommendation......Actually Brad McQuaid is back at SOE working on EQ:Next. I bet he could give you a rec too, seeing as how his idea for EQ came from an ancestor of one of the MUDs I'm speaking of.

Damn I'm old.