Scatmax overkill sort it out

[Rumblepit]

Originally Posted by EVILPIG

LMFAO - you're too far out there to even have a discussion. One should not have to reexplain everything thrice. This thread is still not about the TR being underpowered, nor did I say anything about skill based fps combat being boring. This MMOFPS would be boring with the empire flavors. Now let's discontinue our conversation since you don't seem to get anything and constantly need the Crayola reiteration.

first and foremost you live inside a max, you opinion on the matter is as valid as what i just flushed down the toilet. your apart problem, your views are bias, and everyone can tell you have a agenda. stop derailing the thread. if your gonna talk balance then talk balance otherwise be gone. im done with you.

[maradine]

Originally Posted by Calista

Guys please Higby deserves his Porsche 2007 Turbo Coupe. It is our duty to fund it.

2007?

If he ain't in a 991 he's doing it wrong.

[fierce deity]

Originally Posted by Rumblepit

This is a scat max thread, is it not? The data I posted shows that the zoe out preforms both factions. I am not biased. I want balance. The scat max has out preformed the tr max since day 1, and the pendulum has been stuck on your side since launch.

Have there been any balance passes in the TR's favor? We should feel lucky? We were nerfed, and then given lockdown . I do not want any more passes if this is the trend continues.

This isn't a zoe thread. That thing is as bad as the first scat max build at launch. It is a joke. It is not OP. It is broken.

Take grammar seriously if you want to be taken seriously. You could have the most brilliant observation or statement about the subject, yet bad grammar will be your Achilles Heel if nobody can read or understand what you have to say.

Also, your first sentence invalidates your argument that the pendulum has been stuck on favoring the NC since launch. Balance cannot be stuck in favor of the NC if the VS has been buffed to be superior. The balance pendulum has simply swung to the VS. The NC max has received several nerfs, while the VS max has been nothing but buffed.

Yes, the TR max did get screwed over by Lockdown and Mercy nerfs. The reason why Higby hasn't delivered on his promise may be that they are still trying to figure out a replacement for lockdown that is balanced relative to the other maxes.

Originally Posted by Rumblepit

For your information, all mlg matches will be ns weapons only. Skill will determine the winner. Do you think that would be boring? You will never find anything more intense.

Where did you get this information? Provide a link to a developer post, or a video where we can actually see those words coming out of a developers mouth. Otherwise your statement is pure hearsay that holds no credibility.

[ChipMHazard]

Originally Posted by Rumblepit

first and foremost you live inside a max, you opinion on the matter is as valid as what i just flushed down the toilet. your apart problem, your views are bias, and everyone can tell you have a agenda. stop derailing the thread. if your gonna talk balance then talk balance otherwise be gone. im done with you.

Don't throw concrete blocks if you live inside a glass house. Nothing in this thread has warranted the agressive tone used thus far.
Have a personal problem with someone else? Then please take it to the PMs.

Now, I presume that this little "discussion" is over and things can get back on topic, as both of you requested?

A lot of people know how I feel about the MAX balance so I won't rewrite the whole thing, but in this case you [OpolE] jumped down into the waiting arms of a close ranged MAX. Yes, I do agree that scattermaxes shouldn't be able to instagib infantry. However the problem, as I see it, is more one of being forced into the instagib range. If players aren't forced into that range then I don't really have a problem with it since it would be entirely situational. I think it's a bad example to use when wanting to reduce the effectiveness of the scattermax in close ranged combat.

[GreyFrog]

Thats pretty much the problem with NC MAX's, they are entirely situational. So users feel entitled to some instagib if they can only really pull them in one or two scenarios. Both TR and VS MAXs get some range and have more utility.

Putting shotguns on the NC MAX was a stupid idea and now they don't know how to fix it.

[typhaon]

I'm confused by this thread...

NC AI MAX is uber-powerful at very close range. It's uber-weak at everything else. It can't even function in many of the situations you see ZOE and TR MAX getting kills and doing just fine.

ZOE AI MAX is near-urber-powerful at every range. (I will admit that in a point-blank shootout with a properly configured NC MAX, the NC should win).

TR AI MAX is balanced across ranges.


The problem isn't TR and NC, it's that ZOE is so out of whack.

As someone that plays a lot of NC and kills a LOT of TR - TR AI MAX often/almost always fail to press the charge key and get range when I close on them. I absolutely do NOT insta-blick them... it's just they sit there and try and go toe to toe with me with their Mercys/whatever. If you get range on me after I've charged you, it's GG for me.

A tip for NC MAX - go with the grinders and extended mags. Make sure you have your Kinetic at level 5. The 4 extra shots give you the margin for error if you miss... and ensure you always have enough rounds to finish off an enemy MAX. The level 5 Kinetic gives you the durability to unload everything, if you have to.

As everyone knows - if you're an NC MAX and you have to reload in combat, you're dead.

* I'm not against a total re-work of the MAX units. But, if we're talking about changing one thing to bring better overall balance.... start and end with adjusting, removing, replacing ZOE.

[camycamera]

as much as i hate scat maxes.... you have to understand. you are an infantry with a peashooter. it is a max with giant twin shotguns. it is like complaining that you shouldn't get insta-killed by a lib or a tank. a max is a max.

[Rumblepit]

Originally Posted by fierce deity

Take grammar seriously if you want to be taken seriously. You could have the most brilliant observation or statement about the subject, yet bad grammar will be your Achilles Heel if nobody can read or understand what you have to say.

Also, your first sentence invalidates your argument that the pendulum has been stuck on favoring the NC since launch. Balance cannot be stuck in favor of the NC if the VS has been buffed to be superior. The balance pendulum has simply swung to the VS. The NC max has received several nerfs, while the VS max has been nothing but buffed.

Yes, the TR max did get screwed over by Lockdown and Mercy nerfs. The reason why Higby hasn't delivered on his promise may be that they are still trying to figure out a replacement for lockdown that is balanced relative to the other maxes.




Where did you get this information? Provide a link to a developer post, or a video where we can actually see those words coming out of a developers mouth. Otherwise your statement is pure hearsay that holds no credibility.

When im on my phone at work I could give 2 shitts when it comes to grammar.

me not 2 stopid uk?


I am not wrong when it comes to the pendulum being stuck in NC's favor if you look at it from a TR's perspective.
You look at it from NC's perspective it was in leaning to them at launch, now it favors the VS.

Its called perspective.

About the MLG information... look it up yourself... it has been discussed over ,and over again. You really think MLG would allow this unbalanced mess?lmaoo

Why did you think they were adding all the common pool weapons?

[Dragonskin]

Originally Posted by camycamera

as much as i hate scat maxes.... you have to understand. you are an infantry with a peashooter. it is a max with giant twin shotguns. it is like complaining that you shouldn't get insta-killed by a lib or a tank. a max is a max.

No... see the problem is you are instagibbed by a NC and VS max. The NC and VS can use multiple weapons in their max arsenal to pull off that effect. TR have fractures... that is all and fractures don't instagib like NC or VS do.

VS actually have a ton of options.. just vortexes suck. Their comets are way more deadly to infantry than the vortex and those comets are also just as deadly to vehicle. Vortex has a lot more range/velocity. Blueshifts are amazingly effective at AI. By the time you realize you are getting shot you will be dead.

You get NC in here acting like they don't have any perks. Sorry, but a shield that you can reload behind is a pretty awesome tool when you are fighting against just a few infantry.

The TR can lockdown and get mowed down. You aren't going to lockdown as a solo max unless you want to die. NC and VS abilities shine in solo play. TR's doesn't. TR's AI weapons are easy to get away from before you die. NC and VS are hard to get away from before you die. Then NC and VS both have good AV weapons that can kill fast. The TR just have fractures. Pounders are terrible.

Maxes aren't balanced at all.

Originally Posted by Rumblepit

Why did you think they were adding all the common pool weapons?

You are right. Actually what will happen is that all infantry will have NS weapons. They have already started doing it. They weren't originally going to make a NS SMG. They didn't need to. There were already 2 faction specific ones. They have mentioned making a NS sniper rifle.

The only way to make MLG balanced is if everyone uses NS weapons so that there is not an inherit faction balance issue.

[wasdie]

An NC max can farm a confined location like a biolab or interior of a base very well. Everywhere else it's nearly useless for any real gains. The weapons aren't forgiving enough. A good player can make proper use of an NC max outside of biolabs but that also takes supporting players. The numbers get inflated because when it's in its proper element, it's nearly unbeatable.

The TR max is easily the most useless of the 3. Their lockdown ability is only great for flak and camping a single point. That's extremely situational. A supported TR max is useful but it's DPS falls well short of the other max suits at all ranges.

ZoE allows the VS max to be used in far more situations than the TR max and NC max combined. It's simple mechanics. A speed and damage boost allows it to traverse open terrain much more easily, allows it to be the forefront of an attack in any position, and its weapons give it a range advantage. It's too versatile. It's used in far more situations than the other two maxes and that's just not proper design.

We have 3 maxes. One which excels in one situation, one which is practically useless in every situation, and one that is useful in every situation. I'm all for asymmetrical balance but basic logic dictates that there is something wrong here.

What we need is each max to have a clear advantage and disadvantage. Right now the only max with that clear cut gameplay is the NC max. Great in close quarters and very mediocre to useless everywhere else. Sure slugs give it range but it's not forgiving and 90% of users would be better off pulling a heavy assault instead of an NC max at medium to long range. Thus we have a nice balance. In a biolab expect to get roflstomped by a NC max. Everywhere else will depend on the NC players pulling the max. The general zerg won't be able to use them to any high degree of effectiveness.

If each of the max suits had a clear advantage and disadvantage depending on the situation, it would be much less annoying to fight any of them and would allow each faction to utilize a different strategy at a different time.

That all is my opinion of course. I just get frustrated by how often I see ZoE maxes at every single base and outpost. I also feel bad for TR as their max has no real advantage right now. There is no situation that their max is truly suited for. When fighting the VS I always have to be aware of ZoE maxes and they can dish out death so well at every range and in every situation. While fighting the TR I don't even think about their max because I rarely see one being used to any degree of effectiveness and I can often take one out as a lone infantry player.

[AzK]

People saying there isn't much difference between ps1 scattercannon and ps2 must be on crack.

Ps1 at melee range 1 shot with no armor 2 shots with 100 armor 3 shots with 200 armor. at 5+ meters that goes up by 1-2-3 shots depending on pellet spread "luck" and if your aim is perfect or not. I'd say the fastest you could kill a rexo with a scatmax in ps1 was about 2-2.5 seconds, point blank range with PERFECT hits.

In 2-2.5 seconds with a dual ext mag hacksaw you can kill 4-5 people at 5-10 meters.

Saying the ps1 and ps2 nc ai maxes are "basically the same" is ridiculous, to say the least.

That being said, i don't think the ps2 nc ai max should be nerfed, it's pretty much in line with the rest of the game, which is an insta kill no skill fest. Their small mags and horrible range sort of balance out how ridiculous they are. If they didn't insta kill people left and right (when basically everything else in the game does) then there would be no point for them to exist.

[snafus]

Remember Allatum!!!

[Mastachief]

Originally Posted by EVILPIG

A ZOE is like a Scat with a 150 round clip that runs at 90% of infantry Sprint speed and has good range. No comparison. VS>NC>TR MAXes.

Don't forget it's range and ability to warp dodge everything.

Got close to a scat a died? lets look at what you did wrong..............

[PredatorFour]

Originally Posted by AzK

That being said, i don't think the ps2 nc ai max should be nerfed, it's pretty much in line with the rest of the game, which is an insta kill no skill fest. Their small mags and horrible range sort of balance out how ridiculous they are. If they didn't insta kill people left and right (when basically everything else in the game does) then there would be no point for them to exist.

This is so true, just think how many one shot weapons we have. Yesterday i flew around as a light assault killing people in one shot with a shotgun. Skillful? no, just one shot takes them down.

If the devs lowered the TTK, they might find it easier to balance weapons/empires around it that the insta kill we have now. It would make the game more fun to play but they will do it there way. I doubt most of them ever played planetside even tho they say they did.

[Mastachief]

Low TTK is what happens when you pander to the cod kiddies. Now they have been and gone can we get some skill back in the game please.