Biolab got butchered (PTS)

[VampireCrono]

the only real issue i had with biolabs is that since it's pretty much the only base in the game that can actually be defended, it can stop an entire lattice lane for hours while the other lanes shift back and forth every 5 minutes. either make biolabs so they switch as easily as other bases or make all of the other bases as defensible as a biolab. it's mindblowingly stupid when you are stomping a faction on a continent and the only thing they have held the entire time is a biolab.


we saw this crap during beta with the crown and since it got redesigned, battles flow a lot more around that area. it's time for the biolab to get the same treatment

[Obstruction]

we saw this crap during beta with the crown and since it got redesigned, battles flow a lot more around that area. it's time for the biolab to get the same treatment

i think the core of the debate here is that while what you're pointing out is true about battle flow, the practical player response is simply not to defend the indefensible because it's not fun to lose and get camped. and that leads to the attack steamroll and having to babysit the spawn for the handful of guys that will either run blindly out and die, or Rambo out for a couple of kills or just harass the point or back cap.

before the lattice and the redesigns that came with it, many, many players either wouldn't defend, or would leave platoons that were defending. an average platoon would pick up a lot of players on the attack, but then when leaders started calling for defensive spawns and each progressive spawn simply lead to worse and worse camping or suicidal galaxy drops, players would drop out and go to the crown and lone wolf.

eventually this lead to whole platoons passing each other on the map without conflict and simply trading map squares, each on the assault without opposition.

i'm not proposing an easy answer, but i just think it's important for the discussion to clarify the following:

1. people like hard fights like the biolab, the old crown.
2. easy battle flow for the attacker leads to steamroll and babysit.

i guess if i had to really get my hands dirty i would suggest radical redesign and scrap the Alpha Bravo Charlie king of the hill model.

i'd look for something else that allows bases to be defended in a fun and competitive way that doesn't just lead the practical, cert minded F2Per to ditch losing battles and cause a steamroll.

maybe even scrap the territory map tile flip game, and find another way to advance the front lines.

it just seems like the meta being shallow is a function of the elements being weak.

there's a ton of different ways to play war games, not just king of the hill and risk.

[VampireCrono]

no doubt that the battlefield style of capturing just doesn't work for this game. while i would love an overhaul of the cap system, other things need to go in first (resource overhaul, continental lattice) before we can really get down the details. i understand that making the biolab flow more like other bases may give attackers the advantage but right now (with all of the imbalance) it's just an epic pain in the ass to take a biolab. surrounding a biolab does nothing now but when resource overhaul goes in, i'm sure we will see some better scenarios.

[Senorblanco]

Everyone complained that the vehicles were too op and it was wrecking the infantry game, so they nerf'd the hell out of it, plus the domes coming into to protect the infantry so they can fight at a base. But now we have a base that actually requires some strat to not have it turn into a farm for either side, plus an actual infantry only fight and now you make it so the attackers will roll over the defenders.
The bio labs are for many of us, are a wonderful battle, just leave it alone.

[VampireCrono]

i don't think getting farmed for hours on an air pad is fun. i also don't think stalemates are fun when the ONLY place they happen are at biolabs. also, if you haven't noticed, the only way to really win a biolab over is by pulling more MAXs than the other side. if you're VS (for now) the odds are WAY more in your favor than any other faction thanks to ZOE.

[ringring]

I'm a little bemused by some of the dislike of Bio Domes.

It's a place for a hard fight. Also the nature of the fight depends on the numbers involved and on the balance between the forces involved.

It seems to me that there is an expectation that if you attack you should win, possibly the players have been conditioned into this view by all the other bases and outposts in PS2 which just get steam-rolled time after time. Well, no. It's only right that defenders should win sometimes.

From what I have see is that if the forces are split 50:50 the defenders win and if the forces are split 60:40 with the 60 being attackers the defenders win.

I would say these are the same win/lose ratios that existed in PS1 for Interlink battles (and to some extent also for Tech Plant fights).

The key difference between PS1 Interfarms and PS2 Bio fights are that there were two 'tie breaker' mechanisms.

Firstly, in PS1 there was the router which was used by attackers to deploy a teleporter pad inside the base at strategic points enabling a sudden quick win.

Secondly, resources could be drained which after a period would make the base go neutral.

It seems to be the devs would be far more usefully employed putting both or either of these two in and not worrying about moving spawns 6 inches to the left or right, up or down, or adding a glorified plant pot here or there.

[ChipMHazard]

I agree. Instead of making bandaid changes I would rather see them focus on long term solutions like the resource system.
I do agree with many of the changes done to the Bio Lab as the game currently stands, and since I have no idea when we will be seeing the resource system.
So I'm a bit torn here.

[Root Hade]

Yep well heres the new spawn room. Tube inside the biolab and one teleporter for/in the garage.


egh the time code didn't work. 4:58 you see the tube and then goes through the teleporter.