This game just became officially p2w

[Crator]

Pay-to-Win, the big buzz word everyone typically uses incorrectly. I don't see this as pay-to-win even though some might. SOE needs to make money on the game though so let those that think it is pay-to-win complain. Does it really affect that many people that they simply don't play at all? Or do they try it out, regardless of what someone else says?

[Mastachief]

It isn't pay2win and it's not harmful to the game. Any perceived advantage is marginal and is only for a matter of time if you compared player a and player b on a constant.

The moment you can buy a weapon that you cannot get free with certs within a reasonable time (or identically speced weapon) then you can bitch and whine with merit.

Unbunch your panties.

[War Barney]

Originally Posted by Mastachief

The moment you can buy a weapon that you cannot get free with certs within a reasonable time (or identically speced weapon) then you can bitch and whine with merit.

Thats the problem though, while this might not itself be pay to win yet its a step in that direction, if you can buy everything for SC it encourages SOE to increase the cert cost so people end up paying instead of grinding.

And you said "In a reasonable time", it takes a LONG time to grind out the upgrades for MAX attachments as its about 1500 for them all, what is your definition of reasonable time? What if they make all cert upgrades buyable with SC, you can get them all with certs but it runs into many 1000s to get them all, is that a reasonable time?

[Mastachief]

Nothing in this game takes long to get the certs for.

By BR26 you are pretty much at a level where certs don't really matter too much in relation to your effectiveness.

This is a game part of the game is getting certs, but if you play the game with the main reason of gaining certs then this isn't the game for you.

If it takes a couple of weeks at a normal play level to cert out a second max arm, lvl 3 flak, few nibbles on timer and extended ammo thats fine with me (remember TR and VS don't need extended mags).

This is a free 2 play game that cost a hell of a lot to make and probably quite a lot per year to run. It has to make money, time is the biggest incentive to make people pay for their entertainment.

SOE imo have a sweetspot that they operate within and this game even with this new addition is well within that boundary.

There is no real power for sale here. Certainly nothing that some free2playscrub cannot earn within a few hours.

On a personal level, i have most things certed out and i'm subscribed. So my station cash mostly just collects dust as it increases each month. Theres nothing I want to buy right now, new weapons I pay for with certs (because i can). People might get tempted to waste SC on attachments.


I imagine the majority of the subscribers are at this sort of level, so people are probably canceling memberships. SOE need planetside2 to be profitable or it will lose even more staff and development will be switched to maintenence and eventually to nothing and the game put out to pasture as a cash cow just like the original. Difference here is the original was released finished with 12 maps and great mechanics so it defied logic and survived for 10 years. PS2 would be lucky to make 4 before the servers are not worth keeping.

[Slackermagee]

If it there wasn't a balance problem before, with some players not having unlocked the 'right' attachments yet, then why is there a P2W balance problem now?

This isn't a big deal, it pay-to-skip-grind, much like memberships and boosts but less cost-effective and more direct.

[Rahabib]

Personally, this move makes it easier for new players to be viable. The game is far to grindy for my taste anyway, this can eliminate some of that. I buy weapons only because it takes forever to unlock them.

The whole "side grade" argument is BS. There are definite weapons, unlocks, attachments that are upgrades. You can still grind it out to unlock, but its been pay to win since day one since it takes forever to do so.

[VaderShake]

Originally Posted by War Barney

so its ok if I use god mode because just 1 guy being overpowered wont change a fight right? Its not ok for anybody to be overpowered just because its a game of numbers, it will still be unfair for the people who run into that person. I'm sorry I was unaware there was a GOD MODE and someone can be overpowered in this game? We all have access to the same stuff paid or certed unless your hacking? Are you? Are you hacking?

And the problem isn't paying to save time, thats ok it encourages people who don't have many hours a day to play to play anyway as they can unlock things they want and enjoy the game, the problem is it borders on pay to win and the closer they get the more likely they are to cross that line. I don't see how they can cross the line unless there is exclusive paid content that will impact a non-paying player and set them at a serious disadvantage which is simply not the case right now, let's cross bridges when we get there.

Also paying to save time has its flaws, it depends if you trust them to keep the integrity of the game while doing so. Now they are selling attachments for SC whats to stop them doubling or tripling the cert cost of said attachments, is that ok? you can still unlock them for free it just takes so long you'll be subtly encouraged to buy it with money instead. So if I just started playing a sport like basket ball I should start out playing with cheaply made no-name brand shoes from Walmart in order to protect the integrity of the game and not get better gear until I get better? Should I buy an unsafe crappy car (even if I can pay for a better one) to preserver the integrity of driving? Get with the times son, the industry has changed and will change again, come to terms.

And THAT is the real worry with games like ps2 when it comes to paying to save time... do you trust SOE to not fiddle the numbers so it takes an unreasonable amount of time to unlock stuff without paying? I played PS2 without a membership for 6+ months, I never felt anyone was OP or had an advantage, because I was not playing a TDM against other players, I was playing to capture objectives and work as a team to defend objectives. This is not COD, Halo, Quake, or the new Battlefield. I think your are thinking incorrectly about the game.

See comments in RED above.

[Gimpylung]

Originally Posted by Rolfski

Whether or not it's strictly p2w depends on the definition of p2w, which is a never ending discussion.

What's more important however is the perception of being p2w. Every single article around this game has always a big p2w discussion in the comments. And the most used argument in that discussion has always been that you could only buy side-grades, not upgrades in this game with cash. Killing off that argument is the same as throwing your non-p2w reputation out the window.

And now you have created another similar discussion and helped reinforce the perception.

There is so weapon or upgrade in this game that a free2player can't access. People are always looking at this Pay2Win argument from the wrong direction.

OMG, you can unlock something with money

versus

OMG, I can't access something without paying

The former is PS2, the latter is Pay2Win.

[Osskscosco]

Paying for the lack of skill, i don't see a problem with that.

If you can rub together at least 2 brain cells then you will have enough certs to be useful in no time. If not then pay!

[VaderShake]

Originally Posted by Gimpylung

And now you have created another similar discussion and helped reinforce the perception.

There is so weapon or upgrade in this game that a free2player can't access. People are always looking at this Pay2Win argument from the wrong direction.

OMG, you can unlock something with money

versus

OMG, I can't access something without paying

The former is PS2, the latter is Pay2Win.

Very nice summation, but you jsut know the P2W crowd will just say you don't understand and ramble on about the same misguided argument because they just don't get it.

[ringring]

Originally Posted by War Barney

Thats the problem though, while this might not itself be pay to win yet its a step in that direction, if you can buy everything for SC it encourages SOE to increase the cert cost so people end up paying instead of grinding.

And you said "In a reasonable time", it takes a LONG time to grind out the upgrades for MAX attachments as its about 1500 for them all, what is your definition of reasonable time? What if they make all cert upgrades buyable with SC, you can get them all with certs but it runs into many 1000s to get them all, is that a reasonable time?

It doesn't take that long. I've got everything I want at present and I still have 4k unused certs.

And, who is going to get all of the attachments on all of the weapons? You get the ones you want and leave the rest.

[War Barney]

Originally Posted by VaderShake

See comments in RED above.

1. I was simply pointing out that your logic of its fine for people to be more powerful because theres lots of people in each fight doesn't hold up by using an extreme example.

2. Its very easy, they could make guns you buy for SC better or special upgrades you can only buy with SC. I didn't say they will I said this is a step in that direction which is why it worries some people.

3. I never said people should be at a huge disadvantage, if anything I'm all for them changing how the upgrades work so new players get at least level 1 of stuff for free, especially with vehicles like air its a huge disadvantage not having certain perks like the shield, flares, agility frame. My concern was simply that letting people buy everything for SC could encourage them to make things cost WAY more certs so you would need to spend weeks grinding for something that use to take a day so they make more money You need to learn to read and not jump to conclusions kid.

4. Again you seem to just be writing something based on what somebody else wrote, by this point I'm wondering if you read anything I put or are perhaps accidentally responding to somebody elses posts under mine. Could you point out where I said PS2 is a solo rambo game with no teamwork? or where I said people who pay are OP? No I said its POSSIBLE for it to happen, which is what people are worried could happen if they keep slowly moving in this direction.


So basically almost nothing you said actually correlated at all to anything I said. To try and sum it up in a simpler way as you obviously didn't understand me at all.

A. New system means paying to gain power. Power you can get for free though so while not a mortal sin still something some people are uncomfortable with.

B. If you can buy everything for SC, they MIGHT make everything cost more certs to purchase to encourage people to buy instead of getting things for free.

C. It all comes down to TRUST, do you trust SOE to keep a fair system where you can easily get things for free but can pay if you like?

Look at the new EA dungeon keeper, they let you pay to speed up mining but it would take 24 hours for 1 block without paying. To put it simply they made it completely unrealistic to play it without paying. If everything has a SC cost, it could end up like this, buying things with certs being unrealistic.

AGAIN!! IM NOT SAYING THATS HOW IT IS NOW I AM NOT!!! NOT!! NOOOOOOOOTTTTTTT SAYING THATS HOW IT IS NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Simply that its possible for them to go that way.

[War Barney]

Originally Posted by ringring

It doesn't take that long. I've got everything I want at present and I still have 4k unused certs.
.

Says the guy with 52 days of playtime....

I've been playing for a year with a 50% exp boost for 6 months of that and I've got 3 classes setup at this point, and even then by that I mean only 1 or 2 levels away from the max upgrade for most class upgrades as the last ones take 1000 certs to get which is about a weeks playing without a boost, and thats for me who has plenty of time to play, if you play 1 hour a day its probably a couple weeks or more to get 1000 certs.

You don't get every upgrade to every weapon but eventually you'll most likely buy every weapon and kit them out with attachments. What I meant was, does this mean if you buy a laser sight for SC, is it unlocked for every weapon on every faction? or is it just a class of weapons, say buy it for a LMG and you get all the LMG laser sights? cos if it is every weapon for every faction that is literally 1000s of certs you save for a single upgrade. Do this for every single attachment and you'll be saving perhaps up to 10k certs (this is a rough estimate, it could be more or less I've not done the math)

[Timealude]

Originally Posted by Rolfski

Do you have any idea how many raging discussions there are in the comment section of literally every article about this game?
The moment this game gets any media attention, whether it being a Levelcap video or an IGN article, the p2w discussion pops like a shit storm.

So in terms of game play the change might not be big, in terms of reputation it's certainly not an overblown issue. P2w is the no 1 topic people look at first when judging a f2p game.

Im not saying its a good decision but I dont really feel its pay to win, also from every comment section on any F2P game there are always people saying there is pay to win stuff, the older style MMO players absolutely hate f2p model as opposed to p2p model. another thing I have learned is that comment sections are a very horrible place since youtube got so popular

[almalino]

As a casual player who plays may be 4 hours a week I am glad I can buy upgrades now. At least I would be happy to upgrade my NC MAX because it takes forever in my pace to get certs.