Gun Control

[belch]

Originally Posted by Figment

Yeah, so? Chances are no intruder kicks in the door, besides, such intruders are out for material things, not being pursued for child murder. So for starters, he wasn't protecting himself nor his siblings, but his home and his parent's belongings.

Chances are? No, my misguided friend...the intruder DID kick in the door. The intruder WAS armed. Your presumptions are as ridiculous as your misplaced faith in humanity. Again, I sincerely hope that your timid soul never meets a true predator. I'm not mocking you, but I can assure you that should that day come, your reasoning, your pleading, your hope in his intentions being good...well, those will be inadequate.

Is that worth risking a shoot-out over in which it is normally more likely that the assailant fires first, or the kid misses and the intruder "fires in self-defense" (after being responsible for creating a conflict in the first place, of course)?

Interesting presumptions except...he risked 2 things. The bad intentions of an armed man kicking in his door, and whether you would acknowledge it or not, defense of himself and his siblings....or to hope for the best against the threat. He chose the former, and I applaud the courage he displayed. That you cannot says more about you than anything.

You completely ignore that the kid (and his siblings) had access to a weapon at that age and regardless if the kid needed it then and there, could have taken it elsewhere and used it on someone else, or hurt himself or his siblings by accident. That's exactly what happens in a whole lot of domestic shootings.

Oh, I did not ignore it. And in fact, I am glad he had the tool available. I am much happier reading that he lived, his siblings lived...than reading about yet another horrible home invasion.

It's baffling that all you can think off is there being an attacker without considering what else could have happened in another situation without an attacker.

It's baffling that you ignore mans history...the history of your own people, as much as you pretend that they are so civil...

Dutch boy sentenced in Facebook murder

Pretentious to the point of oblivion, maybe? I can't tell...but your academic argument does not trump reality my friend.

http://www.rnw.nl/english/article/gun-laws-netherlands

But let's see why you even brought it up? Are you suggesting that since this kid was able to fend of an attacker, we should give all 14 year olds (access to their parent's) guns? Is that it?

How typical that you lament the straw man argument, and yet create statements and viewpoints that I have never advocated nor suggested. I brought it up, as demonstrated by fact...the boy defended himself and his siblings. Theorize as to what could have happened all you want...you are just another mouthpiece, regurgitating ideas that are not your own, based on experience you do not have.

So they can go out and shoot their school bullies? Oh right "that never happened before in the USA". Gee, wonder why so many shootings happen at schools by underage teens. Ehr... they bought a gun themselves? >.> You think? Good thing teens aren't ever in an emotionally unstable state of mind or submitted to stressful situations where they might overreact, right?

Because that's what this 14 year old boy did, tight? Oh wait...you're wrong...again.

Consider that I'm 28 always lived in Europe and never witnesssed an assault with weaponry, at all.

Privileged, aloof, insulated. Yes, I hear you.

So, it doesn't happen where you live at all then? The Netherlands is some neverland of wonder and joy where the hookers poop ganja out their butts? Please, spare me. I can continue to pull up news articles to show how ridiculous your claoms are, but it's just embarrasing at this point.

Why are you pretending I pretend there's no crime? Why can't you see your crime is that more violent? Why do you think that witnessing one knife fight (which isn't a gun fight, which is what you might witness in say New York), is so much worse?

And Theo Van Gogh says...

Oh wait. He doesn't say anything. He's dead.

A knife can be dealt with with basic self-defense lessons and martial arts like jiu-jitsu, judo or karate. A gun on the other hand, cannot. Again, you don't understand I prefer a knife fight over a gun fight. The second part is incredibly important there.

This is based on all of the knife fights you've been in...?

You prefer one over the other because you understand neither. Dead is dead. Whether ventilated by blade or bullet. I am certain that you have no clue how quickly a man with a knife could close the distance and shove a 4" blade into your liver. And further, I wouldn't be surprised if you had no idea how long it would take to bleed out with a punctured liver. You should 'google' it. And then, eat crow.

And no, it's not likely to be attacked with a gun, as our crime statistics clearly show. Which you for some reason keep ignoring. Why do you keep ignoring facts over your hypothetical theories and fairy tales? There is no significant gun crime here to the point one can expect it to happen. IF it happens, which is always an option, it's not even likely to end in violence. You do realise that most criminals use a weapon to assert authority in a situation? They have no interest in being persecuted for a capital offense, if they can get away with their primary purpose: obtaining money.

Already debunked your 'Dutch Utopia' myth. Next.

You may want to make a stand, but that's just going to put yourself at a bigger risk. Sure, it's not macho. But then, it's not death either. It's only a material thing you might lose. And no, guns aren't typically used by rapists either.

That's right. You've no idea what it means to make a stand for anything. Maybe, you despise those that have...? I don't know. It wouldn't surprise me, nor be remarkable for you to think that way. I guess, you should really be thankful that you have much sterner people to protect your dainty sensibilities.

In principle, running is always the best recourse. Getting people out of danger is better than putting them IN danger by seeking confrontations.

Except when you can't. Like say, when you're in your own house.

Read both the articles of that second link in the previous post. Read them completely.

I did.

I didn't say that, nor implied that anywhere.

I did say Western European criminals don't use guns as often and they're therefore far less lethal. The hooligan example for instance. People have died by being kicked to death in violent confrontations (typically fight events they organised themselves), or blunt instruments like a lead pipe in an attack from behind. The criminals that use guns the most in Western Europe are Eastern European criminals, with guns originating from their civil wars and revolutions, which wern't taken away from them. Something that did happen in Western Europe after the liberation.

Whaaaatttt??? The evil scarey "Eastern Europeans" managed to infiltrate the impenetrable "Fortress Europa"?

Oh, what a study in double speaking you are, my friend. The herb there must be potent indeed.

Note that I'm not against mobilisation of a populace. I am against portions of a populace arming themselves for their own ends. I simply don't trust people with a tool of significant killing power. You don't either, but your solution is to make sure you can't trust anyone so M.A.D. protocol enters into the equation.

Because your ideas of gun laws have prevented people from using guns to...oh wait...wha?

Man with "Big Machine Gun" opens fire in Dutch mall killing 6

But I asked you to compare it to Brazilian football, where you basically have gang wars over football matches between hooligans, where frequent gun fights result in a high death toll. Those may go as far as to kill if you wear the wrong colours of pants in their neighbourhood, because they take you for a supporter of a different club.

We don't have that. At all. Despite of the deep rivalries and hooligan / police clashes. Would you as a riot police cop rather face drunk hooligans with access to pistols, rifles and machine guns, or drunk hooligans with stones, boxing thingies, knives and sticks? Perhaps the occasional molotov cocktail?

Nice strawman. I hope he isn't set on fire with the occasional Molotov cocktail.

Big, BIG difference. I've nowhere said there's no violence in Europe. However, I HAVE stated it is nowhere NEAR as violent as with you barbarious lot. ;p

Yes, I am the barbarian that you fear. You do not understand what it means to be an American, but then I haven't asked you to. Some might say that, with your uber-elitist attitude, looking down on we the "barbarious (?) lot", you are some Euro-trash snob that gladly traded in his freedoms and liberties for a sense of security, bleeting away with the rest of the sheep...never contemplating what the actual price of their safety actually is. Never giving much thought to those that hold that line for him.

But, not me.