Originally Posted by Shogun
so how will this be exploitable?
keep in mind that you need ressources to draw a vehicle.
easy solution for absolutely any form of vehicle muling: deconstruct a vehicle when the person who spawned it logs off. (hacked ams excluded because this would cause exploiters to log off when their ams is hacked, just to destroy it)
and if vehicle hacking was in, it´s not like any empire can access everything in the game! if you want to drive an enemy vehicle, you would first have to find an empty one and hack it without being noticed. that´s a whole different story than walking to a term and hit e!
in ps1 almost everybody could hack vehicles, and advanced hackers could even hack occupied vehicles, but it was no problem at all. most of the time the factions used their own stuff. only when people let their tanks or bfrs unattended, or were stupidly camping, this tactic was used a lot. and that was a good thing.
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Originally Posted by Lonehunter
it's easily exploitable because me and my 10 buds would log on other empire characters and just meet each other to swap vehicles. Trust me most of the time we'd use EStanks that aren't our empire's
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Originally Posted by AThreatToYou
I think you are oversimplifying the logistics of the situation. Empire technology trades would be very cool imo. If you arrange them, people can sabotage them or stall to distract forces from the battle. It is a sandbox game, and may you excuse me when I conveniently shove this into "This is the player's game, we should be able to do this".
If we, the players, can do it... we can also stop it by in-game action.
Now, back to the logistics, firstly you won't be able to spawn these tanks which is a big deal after they inevitably get blown up. You won't be able to pull them whenever and wherever they would be normally available, making their use extremely limited for what is essentially 0 power gain. And the enemy Empire would know if you had one, and if you did a trade, they would know who has one. I imagined stolen or traded vehicles would be high-priority targets...
In PS1, traded vehicles were a complete non-issue. I really don't see why it would be one in PS2.
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Indeed, after all this game is suppose to have asymmetrical BALANCE; No one empire is necessary better over-all then the other two, just more prone to a particular niche!
What better means of proving this then allowing players of one Faction to try out the Vehicles of another?
Originally Posted by Shogun
if introducing v-hacking will create the need for new engineer items, that´s excellent and i want it even more! because the engineer needs things to do just as desperate as the cloaker needs them!
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Well I don't see how any NEW Engineer items would prevent Vehicle Hacking...
...I'd just rather have more extensive Combat Engineering to spice up the vehicle game over all.
Originally Posted by Rivenshield
Hack a vehicle, it reverts to the plain-vanilla starting model with no certs, weapons, decals, or superpowers. Problem solved.
It would still be fun. Oh, it would be so much fun.
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Originally Posted by Lonehunter
And you can't remove weapons, attachments, or anything like that from a vehicle once it's spawned. The game doesn't see it as a modular system, it's one item with different attributes. Kinda like they'll never allow swapping of vehicle weapons while they're out because it requires a whole new vehicle to spawn.
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Fair enough, even though I find the explanation that you can't simply code a way to alter load-out variables on a Vehicles like you can for the Player Character a bit suspect, but how about the Textures?
Say, a Hacked Vehicle suddenly goes from whatever Camo the owner had on it to "hastly repainted in another Faction's colors" job?
Originally Posted by Figment
Of I recall correctly, there were several issues:
1. Getting to use a load out you haven't certed, like scavenging (which really is a case of: who cares? Where it comes to players anyway):
Solutions:
A: keep up- and sidegrades
B: revert it to a basic level
C: keep up- and sidegrades you have certed the equivalent of, revert the rest to basic
2. Identification issues: camo, cosmetics, profile.
Profile is not an issue. Diverse enough.
Camo: turn into own empire's equivalent
Cosmetics: use defaults of loadout 1 on own unit
3. Need to make three times the amount of skins and therefore three times the amount of work and costs.
Solution:
A. Only replace some colours by simply swapping them
B. Make default skins for hijacked vehicles (at first)
4. Even more texture heavy game (player memory)
Probably this is the biggest issue, there are non-player rig related solutions for the rest.
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Well for Number One I'd just go with A, it's not really any different then jumping in an abandoned Vehicle of or Gunning for your own Faction.
For Two, Three, and Four I'd have the Vehicle remain the way they were save a garrish retexture to look like it was hastily painted in the loudest Faction colors the Hacker could find!
Then again, I'm looking at this from a larger picture...
MWAHAHAHAHA!!!
Originally Posted by Mordelicius
Barriers/Drawbacks:
1) It would be OP (low risk/high reward).
2) Easily exploitable. With all the alt griefing going on. What's to stop "organized" groups from exploiting it?
Example - low lvl Faction A alt logs in to 'deliver' free vehicles/aircraft to friends of Faction B. Now, with an Outfit, log in 10 alts and get 10 free Liberators. Right...
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Originally Posted by Captain1nsaneo
Those against hacking or thinking it would be OP aren't thinking enough about it. The time investment to setup getting ES kit from alts is much higher than you think it is and it gives much less bang for the time than simply instant actioning to a fight and pulling your own tank.
Let's walk through the process:
-Log onto alt
-Find a quiet spot on the cont that you'll want to use your tank on (warpgates still aren't working right? Haven't checked recently)
-Drive there without being attacked by enemies who don't know what's going on
-Deliver tanks to equal number of friends with hacking
-Log out after tanks have been hacked, log into your normal character
-Use tanks until either you run out of ammo or are killed, mostly likely you'll be killed.
Note that having an enemy tank isn't some magical tricky shield, people get TKed all the time for shooting at friendlies. That veneer isn't going to buy you more than 1 or 2 shots before someone figures out that their crosshairs are turning red while looking at you.
The people who would do this would probably do it one or two times and then get bored. I know I did back in PS1. The fun of hacking is doing it in the wild where you're bouncing in your seat right along with the enemy shells hitting the hull of your ill-gotten and short lived gains.
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Indeed, especially if the ability to hack Vehicles is a top end deal.
So first you'd need an Alt on the other side with a Vehicle all armed and certed out the way your client wants, then a high level Hacker to flip it for them...
...Plus as Figment metioned they'd also have to deal with Resource Cost...
...And what if there was a way to enable one Faction to pull another's Vehicles?
Originally Posted by Captain1nsaneo
I honestly don't care about colors, if they're too much of a pain to change then leave'm! Just change the little green name to a red one, make the crosshairs change color, and if it's ES prevent it from reloading its ammo. Vehicles die fast enough to make it not matter and the ones that survive will get marked for death by the humans who are on the otherside.
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Well I'd force a Faction recolor for two reason:
First is plain IFF, after all it's hard to claim a bright freaking RED Magrider has any sort of "stealth" advantage.
Second is to simply RUB IT IN!!!
Let's remember that this is a Zero-sum game, in the end all we are really fighting for just various expressions of "NANANA-NA-NA, we're better then you are, you stink, we're going for WATERMELON!!!"
So limited use another Faction's asymmetrically balanced Vehicle isn't so much a means to an advantage as it is simple BRAGGING RIGHTS that you were able to get a hold of it in the first place...
...Hence why I figure reintroducing the Benefit of being able to spawn a Faction's Vehicles after you've captured their Home Continent would be something we'd all want to see.
This would be a perfect reason to allow Empire Specific Equivalent unlocks and more end-game content; Sure your NC's Vanguard is maxed out, but how's his Prowler and Magrider load-outs hold up?
...It might also make a cool mechanic where Hacked Vehicle terminals don't spawn your Faction's Vehicles, but the hijacked/annexed versions of the Base Holders.
Originally Posted by Aveox
I would like to see things like hacking make a return. They add a bit more flavour to the game.
I do dislike the hacking of occupied vehicles though. That was the lamest thing ever in PS1. Empty parked vehicles? Sure. But being ejected mid-fight because you happened to be stationairy for a few seconds is not fun, especially with the already short hacktimes in PS2. In any case hacking should take a length of time that makes it dangerous and rewarding to pull off (thinking of hacking sunderers here) and should have a very distinctive hacking sound as well as a proper tool for it.
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Personally if Vehicle Hacking were to go in, I'd try to make the hack time a function of how many passengers you'd need to boot out.
So a completely abandoned Flash flips somewhat easily, while a fully loaded Sunderer or Galaxy could take a few minutes.
This way MBTs would have an actual reason to bother with Gunners...
OR YOU COULD SWITCH THE GUNS AROUND!!!
...I also agree that the REK should come back as a tool slot item for at least Infiltrator Hacking, forcing one to choose between Recon or Hacking.
2013-06-02, 07:49 PM
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