Balance issues BESIDES jackhammer

[CrazyCrazy]

I thought I'd start a thread to dicuss balance issues besides the jackhammer, becuase I'm sick of it, everything that's been said about it has already been said, and its all in the devs hands now anyway.

Well anyways, the first thing that needs mentioning is Anti-vehicle. I have tried both TR striker, and NC phoenix, but haven't tried the lasher or lancer (forget what its called). Now I like the phoenix a lot. It has definite tactical advantages being able to fire beyond line-of-sight. It can even be used to get some intel on enemy positions while being safely out of harm's way. However, the fact that it only holds one missile and has no secondary mode (even a dumb-fire mode would be good) makes it only useful in certain situations (completley useless against air threats, and slightly less useless when a ground enemy is within decent range to fire back). The striker, on the other hand, is much more versatile. Holding three missiles, a lock-on mode (great for AA and AV), as well as a dumb-fire mode (excellent against MAXes at close range). Any TR could easily carry the striker with him at all times, along with a rifle or heavy weapon and be ready for any situation. The same cannot be said for the Phoenix.

The next thing is the Heavy buggy. Again, I haven't tried the VS buggy, but between the enforcer and the marauder, there is no comparison. The marauder's "ground-pounder" gun is essentially a long-range MAX pounder gun with a slower RoF. It decimates infantry like nobodies busineness. The machine gun is also good against vehicles in the hands of the right gunner. Just the fact that you can carry 2 passengers makes it a better buy for the cert points. With the enforcer, you have one slow firing, but powerful gun. without the Anti-infantry capabilites, you won't last long in an enforcer alone. The enforcer has limited applictiaons as a support vehicle for tanks, but in most cases you're better off just going for a harasser and saving the extra cert point. (unless you want to be able to drive a jacked marauder).

Tanks. Most people say that the Magrider is the best tank, but I think the tanks in this game are all pretty well balanced. Although the prowler has the advantage of 2 gunnners, its slower speed makes it an easy target. The vanguard is just kick-ass. And the mag is cool becasue it can go over the water I guess. Sorry I can't say more about tanks, maybe someone else can elaborate.

Heavy weapons I'm skipping, But maxes we can talk about. Since the patch, I think TR and NC Maxes are pretty well-balanced. The max pounder is still the king of towers and bases, but the Falcon rocks outside. The VS, on the other hand, are severely lacking here. The anti-infantry MAX for VS actually requires you to be able to shoot straight unlike the other 2 empires, and the AV VS max fires incredibly slow. The ability to jump is definitely cool when invading towers or bases, and avoiding enemy fire, but whenever you land from a good height, you lose a considerable amount of health. I think they should reduce the health damage a lot and slow the capcitor recharge rate to compensate.

I'd like to hear your opinions.

Well enough of my banter, just thought I'd try to talk about empire-specific items other than the you-know-what.

[Kikinchikin]

maruader and enforcer are even. enforcer kills agile in one hit i believe.

maxes VS maxes are fine, their AA ownz, and their mobility makes up for any lacking in power, since they got the clip size upped to 60 on the quasar.

tanks, i believe are perfect

AV thats wut struck a nerve. many believe that the striker requires no skill to use and it is an invincible way of taking down most nething. Problem is, a tree can break ur lock long enough for ur missile to disapeear. And altho clip size is bigger in the striker, the phoneix deals out more damage per hit. Lancer on the other hand is totally unalike the other two. I hate it, but i know its good, cuz i got shot down at least 3 times with it in a reaver today. AV is balanced IMO, dont go nerfing again devs...

[Crono]

I've heard some people say "nerf teh striker it is being 2 overpowered"... Well, just be glad that the Striker is the only Anti-Vehicular weapon that isn't Anti-Infantry. I mean, more NC have fired a Pheonix at me while sitting behind a tree repairing/healing than in a vehicle, and it takes a fair amount of health away (not much, but it can still get you). I can't tell you how many times I've been killed by a Lancer while in combat. It can kill you in three hits (don't deny it). Seeing as it fires semi-rapidly, and is quite accurate, it can even be roughly categorized as a Sniper Rifle.

Everyone tends to classify the effectiveness of vehicles on their fire power. Now, the Marauder is great. It can hold three people, great fire power, but it's somewhat slow and not very agile. The Enforcer can only hold three people, but the rocket launcher on the back it equally powerful (compared to the GroundPounder Launcher on the back of the Marauder), but has the advantage of straight firing (so you don't have to anticipate the position of where it will fire, as the GroundPounder you do), AND the Enforcer is faster, as well as more agile. The Thresher likely has the least amount of fire power, but is extremely agile (being able to strafe, go across water... And whatnot). Since I've only tried it once, I can't compare the speeds.

The empire specific tanks have their own advantages. However, the Prowler is teh 1337 sux. I mean, the only advantage it has over the Vanguard and MagRider is that it can hold three people, wheras the Vanguard and MagRider can only hold two. The Prowler has two guns, a machinegun (much like the secondary fired mode on the Vanguard, but faster), and a degraded version of the Vanguard main cannon. The Prowler's main cannon is the notable weak point. I've tried the Vanguard before, and was able to achieve approximately ten infantry kills before being destroyed, of course, this isn't including the Sunderer I raped in two hits and killed the four or five passengers and gunners (now, I don't know how much armour it had, so don't get too worked up if that's inaccurate). With the Prowler, I basically need to be quite lucky to get four or five kills before Sputty has to get out and repair it. Now on to the MagRider. With this empire specific tank, the main advantage lies within the driver. The driver can show his/her amazing skill by running you down like before you could even hear the bitch. That's why I, an many others fear the MagRider, it can pwn you because it's so fact and agile. One of the things I've seen done by a MagRider driver seems quite efeective (and suicidal). If the MagRider driver finds an AMS, they ram it, and start firing it's driver-controlled gun psychotically until it explodes... Quite effective. My simple solution to the insane ramming of the MagRider is that every vehicle should take a very significant amount of armour taken away when they hit someone. It makes sense, and fixes the 'problem'. There's really no point to dwell on the main cannon of the MagRider, seeing as it's perfectly normal.

On to the MAXs. I can't provide much insight since I never use MAXs... But I'll try. The TR and NC are arguably equal, however, the Pounder can rape if guarding a small area, whereas the Scattercannon MAX can't as well. The AA and AV MAXs seem equal (sorry, I've only used them a few times so I don't know how to compare them.) I think the Vanu MAXs have the main advantage of jetpacking. They can affectively escape eney fire (except Strikers) and get to places where regular MAXs and infantry can't reach (trees, tops of buildings, ect.) which provide effective fire power against those below.

[BUGGER]

besides the jackhammer getting nerfed or the MCG and lasher getting more energysers .........

the thresher needs help, its the weakest link here. the TR and NC buggies are both equal, u could compare them to the vangaurd an prowler and get smae results, jsut the tanks are more powerful. i dunno, i think the av weapons are ok, i never reall experimented with the lancer, but the striker and phoenix are ok. The maxes are ok, tho the tr aamax has very little affect to infantr or vehicles compared to both nc and vs aamaxs. The hand guns, the repeater could have a faster repeat rate and the beamer could have alittle more power in its secondary fire, the mag should....well, i dunno, stay the same or open the cone alittle. the med assult weapons are all ok.




o ya kno, in offline training on the 2nd one, certs and equiptment. u could buy every cert and try every weapon, but as u kno once u access the weapons term ur body becomes locked. I kno u can shoot much, but u could test the weapons on the wall and see if it should shoot faster, have a smaller/bigger cone, etc (nlike vr training where u shoot a guy that may have 1 health left)

[SumYungGui]

Originally posted by Lilbird2431
maxes VS maxes are fine, their AA ownz, and their mobility makes up for any lacking in power

brzzzzt, WRONG. thank you for playing. do you want to accept your consolation prize now or will you be contesting the judgement with our review panel?

[Malodorous]

Well for any non-NC playing on Emerald, the biggest single issue now plaguing the game is numbers. The NC currently have more players than VS and TR combined on Emerald. Add that to the fact that the entire NC population just charges in with the badly-in-need-of-nerfing Jackhammer, and the game is simply worthless. I have played much lately on other servers, and though the Hammer is still an obvious issue everywhere, the population problem on Emerald is out of control altogether. Soe really needs to take a look at Population-Capping character registrations as well as logging on to each server. Something needs to be done to discourage the massive defection of TR and VS to NC.

Not that it is ever gonna happen, but I would love to see everyone...every damned TR and VS defect to NC tomorrow. If the whole damned server was NC tomorrow, SOE woudl have no choice but to address this issue.

[BUGGER]

dont make me defend nc, cause i hate nc.


the hammer aint the problem, still i think nerf or up the mcg and lasher, but u put it like the hammer is the one big mother fucker, nerf it out the game, then every one is gona run to lasher and then the problem is gona be vs, then thats gona get nerfed then ever1 will run for a mcg, that gets nerfed, next will be something of nc again, probly the maxs, then this long chain will continue. the hammer is not a big problem. tho does any1 kno if the servers have spacific empire ammounts (if the server held 60 players, only 20 guys per empire)? dont nerf the jackhammer to hell....only, cool it off alittle......or warm up the mcg and lasher......

[BigFreak]

Ye, i'm just gonna say my lil bit on tanks. They are clearly not balanced at all. The prowler has to be the worst, really. Yea, it takes 3 ppl, but that one of the biggest disadvanctages ever. Magrider take two people, and the the driver gets a gun, thus two people; huge advantage. The prowler cannon is just pathetic compared to the magrider canon and the vanguard canon, that rips thru ppl in two hits, and the machine guns more or less insignificant....and it's slower. The only good thing I can think about it is it's small...which doesn't really help for much.

Ye, just noticed my sig was removed...can someone tell me what makes a suitable sig/why mine wasn't that? :E

[BUGGER]

cause ur sig was too big in size, u get 3 warnings, on the third 1 u cant hav a sig (i think). Its on the faq page......i think.....

[Shadowsword8]

About the AV weapons, the Phoenix badly need a RoF upgrade. If you want to know why, try to take out an enemy reaver alone (which is fairly easy to do with a striker or a Lancer), and you'll understand.

About Heavy Weapons, I don't understand why all the TR players scream "nerf the Jackhammer". Yes, the JH is lethal at point blanc range, just as it is supposed to be. But a very close range, the MCG kill just as fast. And the MCG effective range is far greater than the one of the JH.
The only HW who need some upgrade is the lasher (RoF?), and it has an advantage the two others have not. Iy's AoE capacity make him able to kill ppl hiding on corners...

About the tanks, the Vanguard is ok, the Prowler might be a little faster, and the Magrider, even if it has less firepower than the 2 other, more than compensate with his agility and improved run over capacity.

[Madcat170]

In open beta i dont rember any bitching about any of the Heavy Assault Weapons other than the lasher ( they wernt saying nerf it they were saying buff it. and they did)


The Reason the jackhammer is a such a pain now is, 1 guy got it somewhere and was good with it, another NC saw this and got 1 and got good with it then the word spread and now every 1 has one and its gotten silly.

AV Weapons

Class is Balanced

Striker Advantage = Easiest to use & has lock on and Dumb fire modes

Striker Disadvantage= ineffective against infrantry, Have to expose yourself to fire to get lock on & lock on can be lost if target goes out of sight (missiles go into dumbfire mode

Phoenix Advantages = Can Fire from safety, Highest Damage Per shot, fastest Reload time ( its not much but its definatly there)

Phoeniix Disadvantages= 1 shot before reload, no dumbfire mode

Lancer Advantages= Biggest Clip, Fastest Firing, Accurate, Longest Range ( i think), only AV that can kill a MAX without a Reload & Good Against Infrantry

Lancer Disadvantages= Hard to hit Fast moving Targets &akes lots of skill to use up close and personal (Cant think of any thing else)

Heavy Buggies

Enforcer and Maurader are balanced rather well, Threasher is in need of a boost.

Only ways i can think of boosting it are:

More Armour, increase speed, remove the damage it takes when it leaves the vehicle pad ( if it still takes that), give it a passenger seat, bigger gun & second Gun + gunner.

[Arakiel]

Originally posted by Lilbird2431

maxes VS maxes are fine, their AA ownz, and their mobility makes up for any lacking in power, since they got the clip size upped to 60 on the quasar.

The pounder has stopping power. The scattercannon has stopping power too, albeit less. The quasar cannot engage more than 1 infantry at a time, and thus it is incredibly easy to overwhelm. A pounder can easily keep 5 infantry at bay, whereas 5 infantry (even without AV weapons or explosive weapons) has a very good chance of taking down a Quasar.

A Quasar MAX cannot kill 2 competent striker/phoenix/decimator troopers. A Pounder MAX certainly can, and a Scattercannon is debatable.

I'm sorry, but when your defense of the VS MAXes is that they can use their jumpjets to run away faster, isn't that a sign that something is wrong?

Speaking of suckanimous VS certs, what's the deal with the Thresher? The cannon is a mess, being that you cannot kill a reinforced with a full clip even if you land every shot. The armor on it is abysmal, and the fact that it takes damage for going up or down hills (hi sony, this bug is months old, this is why no one uses threshers even for transport) completely nullifies any "mobility" advantage it has.

My empire has been gimped since the beginning of beta, and it's getting old fast.

[kidriot]

how bout they balance our $13 a month with content

that's the only balance issue I'm interested in

[Duffman]

Originally posted by Shadowsword8
About Heavy Weapons, I don't understand why all the TR players scream "nerf the Jackhammer". Yes, the JH is lethal at point blanc range, just as it is supposed to be. But a very close range, the MCG kill just as fast. And the MCG effective range is far greater than the one of the JH.

ummm no the MCG has almost no range at all because the COF expands to quikly and it also does not even comare to the JH dmg at close range. Get you facts right then come back.

[Knuckles]

+ = Needs luvin'.
- = Nerf or redesign.

TR Pounder (-): Design flaw to stick an AI MAX with an area weapon of this magnitude in the game. Many a time I die before I even get to see it.

TR Striker (-): The best AV weapon there is. Easy to use, hits everything, high ROF. Do something! Either slow down the ROF or make it a one shot lock - can only get one lock per missile. (Or... give some luvin' to the other factions AV weapons.)

TR Mini-Chaingun (+): Tighten COF.

TR Prowler (+): IMO it was a mistake to make this a 3 man crew vehicle. It should be 2 as the other factions. (It's almost impossible at times to even find 1 gunner for Your vehicle! Consider getting 2...)

NC Phoenix (+): Very slow ROF (but good punch). Either speed up the ROF a bit, or give it a secondary dumbfire mode, which would help it indoors.

NC Sparrow (-): The fire and forget on this thing is just nuts. Either tone that aspect down, or jack up the other factions AA MAXs.

VS Comet (+): Make the damage over time orbs actually stack! (Another design flaw.)

VS Starfire (+): Speed up the orbs and lessen the damage they lose over distance. (I believe this MAX has the same stacking issue too, as the Comet one does. Yet another design flaw.)

VS Knife (+): The knife should either hum OR glow in secondary mode - not both!

VS Beamer (+): Either up the damage per shot considerably, or up the ROF/clip size.

VS Lasher (+): Double the speed of the orbs... Hell, triple the speed - and up the damage each orb makes (and forget all about the lashing concept - it's stupid). This weapon is currently outdamaged by other factions MA weapons in its intended range!

VS Lancer (-/+): Lower the AI damage on it (say 25% to 50%) and up the same percentage towards AV. Something like 5 shots to kill a reinforced, 4 to kill a MAX, and about a full clip for a Reaver (6).

VS Thresher (+): Takes damage from everything, low armor and has a hopelessly underpowered gun. Fix it!