Health/armor and healing/repairing

[FIREk]

Since Matt and Smed seem to suggest taking inspiration from Battlefield 2 and Bad Company 2, I can't help but wonder how health and armor will work in PS2.


H E A L T H

Will we see passive "thumb sucking" health regeneration (also known as "BLOODY SCREEN! SO REAL!")? If so, will the Medic's role essentially be limited to reviving and dropping medkits like in BFBC2?

Health points seem to be a thing of the past, not to mention slowing the game down and punishing non-medics for fighting (so what if you just killed 8 NC/VS in a row? now you're left with 4 HP until you find a medic).

I think Matt did mention medkits, which might suggest health points, but passive regeneration doesn't necessarily rule these out.

If we do get health points again, how will Medics heal? Hopefully the patient won't have to be perfectly still this time. I wouldn't like to see TF2/Global Agenda-like healing beams in PS2, though, for aesthetic reasons...


A R M O R

Will armor have hitpoints again? In PS1, even if you were an ubersoldier with Adv Med and Engy, having to stop and repair slowed the gameplay a lot. In PS2 you would be gimped after taking a few hits, until you found an Engineer.

What if there's no armor hitpoints and different classes will simply have a different damage threshold? This would speed up the game, but limit the Engineer's usefulness indoors a lot. This could however, be offset by making the Engineer the AV (and anti-MAX by extension) class of choice.

With no armor hitpoints, wouldn't MAXes be buffed to high heaven (which may not be a bad thing)? Their biggest weak point now is being very dependent on engineers. If they had unlimited armor (and therefore resilience) all the time, they would be unstoppable if they were accompanied with a Medic to revive them.


What are your thoughts on this? Do you prefer the modern passive regenerations? Do you want armor to become damaged, necessitating repair? Is it for any rational reason, or just because you're used to it in PlanetSide 1?

[LostSoul]

My actual guess would be they'll be incorporating (not sure if that the right word) the armour value into the health this time around and make "armour" unique to vehicle (maybe maxes too).

[IceyCold]

I put old school health points and non degrading armor.

Armor:

The armor is pretty simple; having the armor simply reduce the incoming damage instead of it's own bar makes it much easier to understand for newer players coming in (one less bar to manage) and simplifies medics and their roles (in Planetside 1 to be an effective medic you needed both medical and engineering, this got tedious tbh).

Just makes it easier to understand and get into for the new guys, and offers really the same effect as it did in the first game minus the hassle of managing two health pools.

Health:

I know a lot of recent games have gotten into this "HUR HUR I HIDE FOR 5 SECONDS AND HEAL TEH BULLETS!" trend but I actually don't like that at all. Really if you get hit you are wounded, and you should stay that way until you get medical aid either from yourself or a medic.

For a game like Planetside 2, where we are stressing teamwork so much, it just seems silly to not have an actual health bar and a health pool in favor of a slow self heal system.

[Death2All]

I hope it resembles the same system we had in PS1 Heath/Armor/Stamina points. This is a really old school concept though and I'm not sure how many people are willing to go for that, but still.

Higby joked about the bloody screen so there's a good chance it won't be in PS2. I'm sure most people are against it. It's boring and cliche now adays.

[Robert089]

I like the idea of armour that doesn't degrade. Perhaps to make MAXes balanced they should act more like in door vehicles than infantry and still have armour that can be damaged and repaired, although they would have a harder time getting reps if they need a full sized glue gun.

[Sovereign]

I'd prefer old school with bf3 inspired nuances.

Wouldn't be surprised if they more or less transfer the overlay from bf3 and incorporate it into the HUD for this game.

[Sifer2]

Regenerating health is stupid. It's over used an makes almost every FPS these days feel like i'm playing the same damn game. Since the method of victory essentially boils down to shoot someone, hide behind rock a bit, repeat.

The lower TTK already threatens to make Medics not that useful in this game. Having regeneration on top of that and they might as well not have them at all. Especially with squad spawn too what the hell are they good for?

As for Armor I could see that system working differently for Infantry this time around. Maybe only MAX's would have armor points. I think the value of it is that if you die but shot the guy some you still feel like you did some damage at least. Which works well in the case of MAX's that don't respawn as easily.

[EASyEightyEight]

I voted old school, but really, I could have picked all 4.

My favorite health system was coincidentally found in Resistance: Fall of Man. To an extent you had regeneration, but it only filled up to the current pip of health. The health bar was divided into 4 pips representing 25% hp each, and if you went beyond a pip, you lost that pip until you found an external means of healing, however you completely self healed your current pip after hiding for a period of time. Like say I have 62 health after an engagement, it will heal up to 75 tops and then I need to find a med-kit of sorts to return to 100%.

Likewise though, another game (that isn't an FPS) called Mabinogi had an interesting system: you basically had hp loss and then wounds. HP loss could be healed via potions or magic, but wounds were a bit more permanent and needed slower forms of treatment. To apply that to Planetside: say I start off with 100 hp and take 4 hits of 12 damage each, and each hit has a 5 damage wound ratio. Basically, I lose 48 health and lose 20 points from my maximum pool of 100. So if I wait, I can naturally heal back up, but only up to 80 health maximum until a medic comes marching my way and patches me up so that I can naturally heal up to the full 100. Technically then, I can make some form of recovery between fights, but I'll eventually end up with very little maximum hp.

An interesting idea then would to allow med-kits (if they're in PS2 as they are in PS1) to soft-heal beyond the wound area. The wounds aren't healed per-se, but the HP is there until it's lost. Though alternatively, medkits could just heal the wounds anyway so people don't absolutely need a medic to make a full recovery, just an equipment terminal to pull ample amounts of medkits from.

I personally prefer the latter system, as it feels closer to PS1's system, just it integrates the "BLOODY SCREEN, SO REAL!" stuff current FPS gamers are accustomed to. That isn't to say I wouldn't be completely happy with just a straight up hp pool though. I'm completely happy with that too. I just don't want 100% health regen. That's annoying.

As for armor, I'm mostly either way with it. I'm for it, because otherwise a GOOD rifleman can turn the medic class into a pseudo super-soldier where mid-range fights are concerned (though with self-regen, that point is negated a fair bit) and armor drastically extends a soldiers life. Without armor, the medic is dead before he realizes someone is shooting at him.

Likewise however, engineers may do a bit more than just drop TRAPs, spitfires, and mines and I trust SOE to give them more definitive offensive options to fulfill their role (like direct AV weaponry, or blowing open doors, or temporarily offering some sort of buff to allies, etc.) They'll still be trusted to repair vehicles I'd wager.

Personally, I'd like to not have to worry about the little blue bar, but I can see how it has its uses too.

[CutterJohn]

I always found the 2 pools of health on infantry kinda silly. I'd prefer just healing. No repairs.

I wouldn't mind a limited regen. Something that fills you back up in a couple minutes, so if there is a lull in the fighting you don't have to bother finding a medic, but not enough to matter greatly in the current fight.

[cashfoyogash]

I dont like the regen health over time. I like it for something like COD. Halo has an interesting one where your hp does not regain over time but your shield or armor does. I think that style fits for really fast paced 10 minute death matches not battles that may take days.

I feel there should be hit points I just dont want to see a bland red bar that reads 100/100. I would like to see something like the resident evil heart beat monitors, closer you get to death the more flat your line becomes.

As for armor I think it should be locational. If your shot in the chest multiple times it eventually stops being effective but the armor on say your thigh, head, or arm is still 100% effective. Which for your HUD could show something like a body and goes from green to yellow to red like in WoW.

I also like the idea of reviving sickness. Like when revived for 1 minutes your at 50% health and upon revival your armor is still just as destroyed until repaired by an engineer. Medics are there to keep your heart beating, once revived you shouldnt automatically have new armor as well.

[FIREk]

Originally Posted by EASyEightyEight

To apply that to Planetside: say I start off with 100 hp and take 4 hits of 12 damage each, and each hit has a 5 damage wound ratio. Basically, I lose 48 health and lose 20 points from my maximum pool of 100. So if I wait, I can naturally heal back up, but only up to 80 health maximum until a medic comes marching my way and patches me up so that I can naturally heal up to the full 100. Technically then, I can make some form of recovery between fights, but I'll eventually end up with very little maximum hp.

I absolutely love this. It doesn't make you a medic's bitch , completely dependent on someone to patch you up after taking a stray hit, but gives you a high degree of independence and survivability, while forcing you to take breaks and make medics useful.
Since it makes medics mostly required in between engagements, it allows for the more immersive-ish stationary healing, kind of like in PS1 (but hopefully one that doesn't get interrupted by the slightest movement:P), rather than some weird healing beam.
On a side note, can you imagine a Medic tailing a MAX with a healing beam "leash", like a Medic and Heavy in TF2? Yuck!

Originally Posted by EASyEightyEight

An interesting idea then would to allow med-kits (if they're in PS2 as they are in PS1) to soft-heal beyond the wound area. The wounds aren't healed per-se, but the HP is there until it's lost. Though alternatively, medkits could just heal the wounds anyway so people don't absolutely need a medic to make a full recovery, just an equipment terminal to pull ample amounts of medkits from.

Personally, I would prefer a med-kit to heal some of those "wounds". Most people will choose to seek a medic to conserve medkits, anyway.
Insta-heal medkits in PS1 are lame.

[Bags]

Originally Posted by DeeTwoEh

I hope it resembles the same system we had in PS1 Heath/Armor/Stamina points. This is a really old school concept though and I'm not sure how many people are willing to go for that, but still.

Higby joked about the bloody screen so there's a good chance it won't be in PS2. I'm sure most people are against it. It's boring and cliche now adays.

What I was going to post.

[EASyEightyEight]

That was the plan. People wanted the self-sustainability, but it was super-soldierish. And if there's no armor counter, incorporating it into health to a degree can help with limiting the self-sustainability. Now instead of hitting 0 armor and even 100 hp is just a couple of shots, it's a few shots will kill you outright, and if not, a LOT will eventually. But there's still some non-reliance on medics for healing involved, so that should make that crowd happy as well.

As for medkits, they could afford to take a moment to apply when considering health regen. Currently, they're used in PS1 to artificially increase one's health pool by 25 hp.

Thinking a bit more on my suggestion, the numbers could be incorporated into armor as well. Let's take PS1's numbers as an example:

18 damage per bullet from the Cycler, and it deals 9 wound damage per shot. Rexo mitigates 10 of the base damage, and 5 wound damage. An agile mitigates 6 damage, and 3 wound damage. This way, heavy armor feels more protective still. Heavy armor would ultimately lose a bit of it's value if both light and heavy armor took the same amount of wound damage, even if base damage received were different.

[FIREk]

I think you should e-mail this to Smed or something. He claimed he replies to all e-mails as long as they make sense.

As for stamina, I hope it will be turned into some kind of "implant energy bar", with no impact on mobility. Not being able to run ad having to remain still for half a minute in order to run and jump again is just retarded in an FPS game. Why don't we add drinking water for faster stamina regeneration? :P
Mana breaks should definitely remain in MMORPGs, where they belong...

[EASyEightyEight]

I don't know his e-mail though D:

And it would be a while anyway, I got something I need to finish by 4 a.m. est, and I've put it off for a whole week 'cause I procrastinate hard (lol... crap.)

Wacom tablets are such a PITA compared to good old pencil and paper