new tank looks

[Tamas]

Originally Posted by Warborn

The magrider is stupid and as a WoT player I dread the idea of having one of the MBTs be a goddamn tank destroyer, even if it can strafe. However, the prowler just looks silly. The turret is strange and the cannons being offset and detached is ridiculous. It doesn't look like a tank. It looks like a weird remote-controlled fighting robot of some sort.

The vanguard looks okay to me. The vanguard with the cam job in the GDC video looks terrible -- all of the factions with cam jobs that are actual camouflage colours look horrible -- but it has a turret and a beefy cannon and is big and intimidating. The magrider would look fine if its main gun was on the turret, but the prowler is a roomba with a pea shooter stuck to the top of it.

I'm sorry but a side strafing TD is epic win.

My win ratio with all TD is above 60%, some are close to 70%. If you would give me the ability to hover and move sideways, it would increase to 80% easily.

Looking at BF2143 - the PAC tank is same as MAG. It was on par if not superior to the EU "standard" tank.

They could add a certificate for making it a turret and take a utility slot is customization.

Yes, I'm getting a Vanguard on my main NC char and MAG on my VS alt. TD FTW.

[Figment]

Originally Posted by Tamas

I'm sorry but a side strafing TD is epic win.

My win ratio with all TD is above 60%, some are close to 70%. If you would give me the ability to hover and move sideways, it would increase to 80% easily.

Looking at BF2143 - the PAC tank is same as MAG. It was on par if not superior to the EU "standard" tank.

They could add a certificate for making it a turret and take a utility slot is customization.

Yes, I'm getting a Vanguard on my main NC char and MAG on my VS alt. TD FTW.

My WoT TD winratios are quite good as well, but you seem to forget that the TD playstyle in WoT is enhanced significantly by camouflage and the scouting/spotting system. Neither of which would exist in the same way in PS2. It is therefore questionable if you can hand out a TD as a replacement of a MBT to one empire.

Of course, the strafing does help a lot. Personally though, I'd prefer a MBT and TD for each empire.

[Marinealver]

Originally Posted by Knocky

I smell the stench of EA in that picture.

IT IS THE SOEA

[Tamas]

Originally Posted by Figment

My WoT TD winratios are quite good as well, but you seem to forget that the TD playstyle in WoT is enhanced significantly by camouflage and the scouting/spotting system. Neither of which would exist in the same way in PS2. It is therefore questionable if you can hand out a TD as a replacement of a MBT to one empire.

Of course, the strafing does help a lot. Personally though, I'd prefer a MBT and TD for each empire.

True. But extended view range (or player ability to distinguish a vehicle from background and assuming camo at a distance will make some difference) + ability to strafe sideways is very useful.

So far in my mind - you always face enemy tank with your front armor (due to hover its very easy), which is the strongest armor. It depends on the traverse speed of prowler/vanguard but you might be able to circle strafe while showing only front armor at close range (yeah they turn the turret, but they shoot your front while you shoot their back/sides). Even corner peaking - you have to expose your side with TR/NC tanks, while with VS you peak with front armor.

Although if the gun is 100% fixed (no up down, left right like a TD) then it kinda sucks.

As I said - from my experience with Nekomata in BF2142 - it was an awesome tank. At medium/long you can dodge incoming shells and even if hit - strongest armor.

I do however think that the gunner should be able to rotate the upper MAG turret - be it AT, AA or AI.


On a side note: we know that dedicated gunner will be a certificate option, I just wonder how that will work out with MAG. The driver basically aims, while the gunner just pushes the button - kinda lame compared to Prowler gunner aiming with the whole turret.

[Hmr85]

Originally Posted by Tamas

True. But extended view range (or player ability to distinguish a vehicle from background and assuming camo at a distance will make some difference) + ability to strafe sideways is very useful.

So far in my mind - you always face enemy tank with your front armor (due to hover its very easy), which is the strongest armor. It depends on the traverse speed of prowler/vanguard but you might be able to circle strafe while showing only front armor at close range (yeah they turn the turret, but they shoot your front while you shoot their back/sides). Even corner peaking - you have to expose your side with TR/NC tanks, while with VS you peak with front armor.

Although if the gun is 100% fixed (no up down, left right like a TD) then it kinda sucks.

As I said - from my experience with Nekomata in BF2142 - it was an awesome tank. At medium/long you can dodge incoming shells and even if hit - strongest armor.

I do however think that the gunner should be able to rotate the upper MAG turret - be it AT, AA or AI.


On a side note: we know that dedicated gunner will be a certificate option, I just wonder how that will work out with MAG. The driver basically aims, while the gunner just pushes the button - kinda lame compared to Prowler gunner aiming with the whole turret.

The Original MAG in PS1 had limited movement on the drivers gun from left to right and up and down. It wasn't a lot but it was something.

[Tachyr]

I really don't care one way or another about the looks as long as the suspension is the same on all three.
The arc on the shots on the prowler is horrible and that together with the bouncy suspension was like trying to shoot a bow and arrow on a unicycle on the back of a pick up truck.

Every time we have vehicle weekend and I get to ride in a VS or NC equivalent i am always surprised of how much less bouncy the gunner experience is and how much easier it becomes to hit the target.

So hopefully they are all the same in PS2

[Xyntech]

Originally Posted by Tamas

On a side note: we know that dedicated gunner will be a certificate option, I just wonder how that will work out with MAG. The driver basically aims, while the gunner just pushes the button - kinda lame compared to Prowler gunner aiming with the whole turret.

Higby seemed to indicate that dedicated gunners would unlock an entirely different set of weapons, which makes sense balancewise for all tanks, not just the Magrider.

Ordinary tanks have the driver controlled main gun + a powerful AA or AI gun for a potential gunner to use. This means that you can either run a solo MBT with a powerful gun and some major vulnerability to aircraft or massed infantry, or a two man MBT with a powerful gun and significant protection against aircraft or infantry.

If the dedicated gunner cert removes the option of having a second gun and yet still requires two people to operate, it damn well better have a significantly more powerful main gun to compensate. Either that or a slightly more powerful main gun and some extra armor, but it doesn't sound like that is the direction they are going.

So I see all three MBT's getting unique new turrets for the dedicated gunner cert. The only difference with the Magrider being that the new turret would probably be placed in the same spot as the normal Magrider gunner turret, although I assume it will be a significantly larger gun. Then they just need to cover over the hole where the usual driver gun used to be and it will be perfect.

Vannie and Prowler would be pretty much the same. Hack off their normal turrets and put on something beefier for the dedicated gunner. Maybe a 200mm giant smoke stack of a gun for the Vanguard and 4 guns instead of 2 for the Prowler?

[Erendil]

Originally Posted by Hmr85

The Original MAG in PS1 had limited movement on the drivers gun from left to right and up and down. It wasn't a lot but it was something.

It's pretty obvious from the GDC footage that the PS2 Mag's main cannon can move up and down too. Higby's reaver got hit by it in mid-air on a number of occasions. It hurt to, blasting away 40% of his total armour on each shot.

I seriously doubt it'll have any lateral movement tho (btw, it didn't in PS1 either). That would make the controls more complex without giving it the benefit of a 360-turret. That would be an incredibly stupid gameplay design decision, IMO.

Originally Posted by Tachyr

I really don't care one way or another about the looks as long as the suspension is the same on all three.
The arc on the shots on the prowler is horrible and that together with the bouncy suspension was like trying to shoot a bow and arrow on a unicycle on the back of a pick up truck.

Every time we have vehicle weekend and I get to ride in a VS or NC equivalent i am always surprised of how much less bouncy the gunner experience is and how much easier it becomes to hit the target.

So hopefully they are all the same in PS2

I'm guessing w/ the power of the Physx they're most likely going to give the Mag a smoother ride than tracked vehicles because it doesn't touch the ground. It would certainly make logical sense, and they'd almost have to do it to try to compensate for the clumsiness of the fixed turret.

Originally Posted by Xyntech

Higby seemed to indicate that dedicated gunners would unlock an entirely different set of weapons, which makes sense balancewise for all tanks, not just the Magrider.

Ordinary tanks have the driver controlled main gun + a powerful AA or AI gun for a potential gunner to use. This means that you can either run a solo MBT with a powerful gun and some major vulnerability to aircraft or massed infantry, or a two man MBT with a powerful gun and significant protection against aircraft or infantry.

If the dedicated gunner cert removes the option of having a second gun and yet still requires two people to operate, it damn well better have a significantly more powerful main gun to compensate. Either that or a slightly more powerful main gun and some extra armor, but it doesn't sound like that is the direction they are going.

Actually Mattt's tweets stated they were considering the option for a third seat for MBT's which would mean dedicated driver + 2 gunners. Regardless if it's 2- or 3-man though, the gunners weapons would still have to be beefed up. There'd be no other way to make the firepower vs manpower equation worthwhile. and not doing so would shift the balance in favor of 2-man, driver-as-gunner setups.

Originally Posted by Xyntech

So I see all three MBT's getting unique new turrets for the dedicated gunner cert. The only difference with the Magrider being that the new turret would probably be placed in the same spot as the normal Magrider gunner turret, although I assume it will be a significantly larger gun. Then they just need to cover over the hole where the usual driver gun used to be and it will be perfect.

Hmmm...... I know I've seen a similar design for the Mag somewhere before. Now where was it....? *thinks*


*looks at sig*



Nope, sorry. Can't place it. Musta been imagining it...

[aleksandrgrc]

if the prowler moves the fastest. and has the smallest silhouette it will definitly show in moving battles but if the tanks aim is significantly worse on the move the advantage is lost. unless a move , stop, fire, move is what you want from the TR mbt. id go with a trapezoid formation of 4 smaller guns on the turret as my choice. all that said, ill just be happy to play

[Malorn]

Off-center prowler cannons looks ridiculous and I cant imagine shooting off center is good for gameplay. The cannons should be centered like in PS1.

[Warborn]

Originally Posted by Tamas

I'm sorry but a side strafing TD is epic win.

My win ratio with all TD is above 60%, some are close to 70%. If you would give me the ability to hover and move sideways, it would increase to 80% easily.

You won't be able to sit back behind a screen of other tanks and snipe from cover in PS2. You won't have thick, sloped front armor that deflects many shots. The analogy wasn't referring to overall gameplay, obviously, as PS2 is incredibly simplistic compared to WoT in terms of tank combat (no camouflage, no round penetration vs. deflection, etc) it was referring to how tanks which fight at close ranges compare with or without turrets. I hope that the magrider's turn rate is slow enough that other vehicles will literally be able to run circles around it.

[SKYeXile]

WHY DON'T WE ALL JUST LINK OUR WORLD OF TANKS PROFILES!?!

Those bellow 50% win ratio can be ignored, those above shall be treated as gods.

Or better yet, just call me Unicum SKYeXile, you bunch of 600 bads

[MrSmegz]

What about keeping the Medium tanks like they are, and then introducing Heavy Tanks that are 3 or even 4 manned. Then just balance those Heavy Tanks against everything else in game, could even be a common pool vehicle to make it a bit easier.

[Tamas]

Originally Posted by Warborn

You won't be able to sit back behind a screen of other tanks and snipe from cover in PS2. You won't have thick, sloped front armor that deflects many shots. The analogy wasn't referring to overall gameplay, obviously, as PS2 is incredibly simplistic compared to WoT in terms of tank combat (no camouflage, no round penetration vs. deflection, etc) it was referring to how tanks which fight at close ranges compare with or without turrets. I hope that the magrider's turn rate is slow enough that other vehicles will literally be able to run circles around it.

I understand that, I just use WoT as some sort of example for armored warfare. I had only several games that had somewhat "normal" tank gameplay - WoT, BF series and Red Orchestra (latter one -hate the tank gameplay...).

Also - German TD don't bounce anything Just rely on sniping mostly, so in PS2 I intend to see if this will work out with MAG/Vanguard.

@Skyexile DAm you! I'm only a "Great player" Well at least I'm in top 3% :P

[Knocky]

I don't see what the problem with the Prowler really is. It looked like a slapped ass in PS1 so why shouldn't it look just as bad in PS2?