Becoming Disappointed.

[Synapse]

I am more excited about this game than I have been about any game in almost 10 years. That means I'll be working hard to make it better in beta. I'll be honest, here are the things I intend to complain about (after testing to be sure) in beta:

I'm not listing specific things, but i'll rather list abilities one should have and let game designers go from there.
1) Territory warfare for bases needs to be meaningful
-They get resources passively anyway, I'm not sure reducing their ability to buy tanks by 5% really makes much impact

2) Territory warfare beyond bases needs to be meaningful
-Needs to be worth pushing for continent scale, people want that, it makes great stories. Doesnt mean I dont like footholds but should be sure that pushing out of one is hard. I'd be fine if the foothold only worked if you had one other base, for example, meaning you'd have to assault over water to get back onto a continent.

3) Improvements in armor models
-I don't see any reason we can't pick a crucial few and get higher quality versions

4) Exploration
-I dont like the boundary but for different reasons. Having one makes the map feel small. It says "yeah you have a whole continent, but right now you can only work in this part" You might as well just instance if you take that approach, right?

Even if NONE of these are fixed I'll probably still play anyway, but I'll be trying to push the game from "I'll play for a year" to "I'll play for the next decade" Planetside has that in reach if we can help it get there.

[AshOck]

Originally Posted by MrBloodworth

I really do not like the Auto repair and auto Re-supply. There are invisible walls over land. People get resources automatically every once in a while, just because ( Everyone is special? ). You can switch seats with a key press, you can enter any vehicle from any angle. You can't kick an empire completely off a continent, they have an impenetrable base. You can bail instantly from anything. One man tanks/gunners other than the lightning. No Enter/exit animations, makes the game feel cheap and disassociated. You can spawn on squad leaders. There is no way to deny opposition any equipment ( you spawn fully equipped ). They have power increases in my Planetside.

This isn't a post that "Battlefield did it" but a post about none of the above fits a WAR game.

I thought this was a War game. War games have elements of logistics/denial in it, required teamwork, and you can loose. Most of the above is great for session based shooters where it does not matter after the timer/tickets expire. Session based shooters are DESIGNED to remove reliance on others, it does not discourage teamwork, but its not required.

I personally do not mind that aspects of PS1 have changed. It always needed things like better net code, and more refined shooting mechanics and such. Also, the engine is stellar so far, and the art wonderful ( The VS max is a bit silly ). The team themselves very open, and very much appreciated for all the work to even bring Planetside into 2012.

I just do not understand the push to remove required teamwork to this degree, or aspects that are found in war games. It seems more and more like its becoming imposable to fail in this game, other than death, for a second. Not for a title that is supposed to be a strategic war game at its core. Not for a game that one of its core rules was no player was better than another because of time played. Not for a game that has such a grip on many people IF it got you. I feel many of those PS moments are being removed. I feel like the baby is being tossed out with the bathwater in many areas.

2c

PS: before it comes up. I like the Battlefield series. They are great games. But they are not war games. They are Battle games. Two different types of Shooters. Just like Quake is an arena shooter. Battlefield is a Battle shooter. Planetside is a War shooter. Different designs, different focuses, different game play.

I couldn't agree more. But this is about the gamers, not the game.
The game will be shaped into what SOE perceives people will want to play. Shaped into what the instant gratification generation wants.

Why land and repair your gal if you can have a game mechanic that instantly does it for you?

Why Exit the vehicle to enter a different gunner position if you can have a game mechanic that instantly transports you at the press of a key?

And who has time to play tetris mini games with their inventory when all they want to do is shoot people?

And, of course, losing is a big no no too. Can't have that in a war game. Oh and lets lower the ttk so even the worst players manage to get some kills and can feel good about themselves.

[Malorn]

I don't understand how people are seeing the recent videos and walking away disappointed. All the TotalBiscuit content has been awesome. Sure we all have some concerns but for the most part the game is looking incredibly impressive, especially given the relative short development time they've had on it.

[Xyntech]

Originally Posted by Malorn

I don't understand how people are seeing the recent videos and walking away disappointed. All the TotalBiscuit content has been awesome. Sure we all have some concerns but for the most part the game is looking incredibly impressive, especially given the relative short development time they've had on it.

I think this is what gets me.

I can easily understand getting frustrated with where parts of the game are going, or being disappointed to hear some of the information being different than how we might prefer, but "Becoming Disappointed?"

It's understandable that we are generally going to talk longer and harder about stuff that we don't like. Stuff we like we just cheer about for a little while, praise the devs, and move on. It doesn't keep getting brought up again and again and again.

But that's just human nature. That can't be helped. But I tend to temper that with the understanding that, even though the positive stuff doesn't always get talked about as frequently, there is still a lot of appreciation for the tons of good stuff we've seen in the game.

It doesn't surprise me that a video as informative as the most recent one would spark a lot of heated discussions and debates, and raise a lot of concerns, but there was so much goodness and awesomeness as well, that it perplexes me how some people take "becoming disappointed" away from that.

[AshOck]

Originally Posted by Xyntech

It doesn't surprise me that a video as informative as the most recent one would spark a lot of heated discussions and debates, and raise a lot of concerns, but there was so much goodness and awesomeness as well, that it perplexes me how some people take "becoming disappointed" away from that.

I can only really speak for myself when I say that what a game looks like is, generally, a smaller part of what makes it fun for me to play. Being able to compete is a lot more engaging and interesting to me.

So, naturally, when it seems like certain elements of competition that I liked are not being included in ps2 I am disappointed. I think that should be pretty simple to understand

[Serpent]

@ OP, I could slap you over the internet and write a huge flame post... but I won't.

I do understand that you are upset about the fact that there are auto repair/ auto heal, etc.

But really? Things like "There's no animation for entering / exiting vehicles, and you can get through seats in a vehicle by the press of a button."

^THAT is too picky. First off, if you claim you want it to be a "War Game" then you imply you want it to be more or less realistic, as that is what it seems you are going for.

So, since when has going into an APC, getting out, then getting back in to change places with someone in the real world ever worked? No... Granted, sometimes it may be unrealistic to actually be able to not get out and back in, but really? Galaxies are NOT going to have people get out and get back in while in mid flight. Sunderers, big as they are, WILL be large enough for people to climb around inside to switch seats. They are bigger than tanks, ffs.

Another point to make: You CANNOT get out of any air vehicle and survive. That is a Cert you need to have, mosquitos / reavers / scythes won't be used as 1 man transports anymore unless you want to risk being shot at while using your bailing seat. (It's called something like that). And believe me, everyone (especially snipers) will LOVE taking shots at your head, they're not stupid-- you have nowhere to go if you're falling down from the sky. It's also pretty obvious to see a huge explosion of an airplane and then a little man pop out with a seat/jetpack on.



A few things I agree on, however. I don't like the VS MAX suit, it could definitely be better.

In all honesty, the thing I'm worried about most is performance, as the TotalHalibut video recently had something like 4 or 5 crashes (which is a lot for an hour of gameplay) Though I think they can pull it off, this worries me much more than most of your points. I'd rather worry about being able to play the game... than worry about whether or not someone is going to regenerate health with a 15 second delay.

/end rant, didn't mean to be too obnoxious :P

[captainkapautz]

I'm still confused where people keep pulling the "OMG UNLIMITED AMMO HERP DERP" from.

O.o

[cellinaire]

To the OP and few people here :

Am I becoming disappointed? No.

Am I getting over-impressed? No.

Want discussion? Yes.

Can a game satisfy everyone? No.

Do we want this game to succeed? Yes.

Expressing personal opinions and concerns? Cool with that.

The possibility that OP is right on his arguments? Of course there is some.

Does the act of stating opinions guarantee that you're absolutely right? No.

Have we played this game at least once? No.

Can you be really sure you're not overestimating the cons and underestimating the pros? Nope.


=)

[Hermes]

Originally Posted by Gonefshn

And yes you could say repairing it yourself will do the same thing but with lower TTK youd have to do that WAY more often and thats taking something already not too fun and making it worse.

I think there's a place for an auto repair module.

.. but I'm disagreeing with your final sentence. Repairing your own vehicle was fun for a lot of people

- I've sniped drivers getting out of their vehicles to repair.
- I've felt a 'connection' to my sundy when I patch her up by hand. /poetic
- I've felt the rush of tearing away from a fight in my damaged vehicle, wondering how far I should drive and where to look for a space to patch her up.

Because repairing a vehicle by hand made you feel vulnerable, exposed. Going through these actions made the game feel more real, and my vehicle more real because of it.


On the scale of doom and gloom, where Mr OP is this gloomy:


|-----------------------------------------------------------|
'I'm disappointed in you game'


I'm more like:

|--|
'For all the great things added, we might lose the I-Was-There factor'


Cutting everything down to just shooting is not going to produce the same epic tales. When the OP mentions war logistics there is a grain of truth there.

When I tell people an epic PS1 story, it's not a shot by shot account. It's about being low on supply, scavenging ammo, the careful approach, plotting a dramatic escape in a hacked vehicle. Pacing is what makes a game operatic, and stories are made on the ground level not from the empire tactical map.


Disclaimer: I love a lot of what has been done, in no way am I disappointed. See above doom and gloom bar.

[EVILoHOMER]

Well fuck off then.

Just sick of all the elitist whining, the game looks amazing and SOE are putting in features to make the game modern. Guess what, millions of people love BF3 and COD, I find BF3 amazingly fun, people can be elitist all they want but the fact is more people are playing and enjoying these games than ever before.

[Toppopia]

Originally Posted by EVILoHOMER

Just sick of all the elitist whining, the game looks amazing and SOE are putting in features to make the game modern. Guess what, millions of people love BF3 and COD, I find BF3 amazingly fun, people can be elitist all they want but the fact is more people are playing and enjoying these games than ever before.

Its interesting to see people with so many different views on everything, some like COD, some don't, some like BF3 and COD. I like those games. But i don't find them fun unless i am playing with my friends being tactical or messing around. Because community is what makes a game great. So even though Planetside 2 will have good gameplay, it won't be fun for a long time unless you have fun playing with friends. Else you are just 1 insignificant person amongst 1999 other people fighting. And to you, all you are doing is killing people, because being alone you can't do anything meaningful, like capture bases or towers. You have to rely on random people, and we all know how that turns out.

[MrBloodworth]

Originally Posted by Malorn

I don't understand how people are seeing the recent videos and walking away disappointed.

I think I was really clear. I'm disappointed in parts of the current design. I'm not disappointed in many other areas like graphics or that there even will be a PS2. I'm disappointed with the war game aspects being removed or marginalized.

[Xyntech]

Originally Posted by MrBloodworth

I think I was really clear. I'm disappointed in parts of the current design. I'm not disappointed in many other areas like graphics or that there even will be a PS2. I'm disappointed with the war game aspects being removed or marginalized.

Things are being changed up, but I think the E3 footage (bad players aside) proves that there is still a heavy role for team play and the large scale war aspects.

Doubtless a lot of things will need to be tweaked, but I strongly believe that the framework is still there.

There really isn't a lot to compare the game to other than the first Planetside, so I can understand how changes are going to be seen as diminishing the game, but I think a lot of these things can be handled equally well in different ways.

I think you are going to be pleasantly surprised once you and some friends/outfit mates get into beta and have a chance to put it to practice. It will be a new learning experience, but I think it will hold true to the core spirit of the first game.

[basti]

Originally Posted by MrBloodworth

I think I was really clear. I'm disappointed in parts of the current design. I'm not disappointed in many other areas like graphics or that there even will be a PS2. I'm disappointed with the war game aspects being removed or marginalized.

Dude, srsly, wait till beta. Stop guessing stuff, you have as much information as we do. We simply dont know jack shit till beta.

[Mackenz]

I have never considered this to be a 'war game'. Not even close, no way, no how. No publicly available (computer) based game out there is as a 'war game'.

I came from the Squad Leader/Advanced Squad Leader board game series, and the rules are a pretty hefty volume. You don't want that here.

Planetside 2 is a MMOFPS, not a 'war game'.

On the positive side, you make make some good points. But never confuse this with a 'war game'.