What class should carry ammo packs?

[Electrofreak]

Why in god's name do half the people in this thread think that Assault classes should be used in a support role?!


There are defined support classes, they are the ones that should be providing support. Other classes, particularly the Assault classes, should be reliant upon them. This fosters good teamplay.

[Hmr85]

Originally Posted by Grognard

...and if I was playing an engineer, I would be happy to bear the moniker, because I know what I do, and "a rose by any other name would smell as sweet".

Engineers are problem solvers. Combat engineers solve combat problems, proactively, or reactively.

Base undefended? Fix wall turrets - problem solved!
Vehicles cant take another hit? Glue gun 'em - problem solved!
3 MAXs just ran out of ammo in a contested control point? Ammo resupply - problem solved (as I cackle in a corner, mindlessly over the carnage, knowing those were my f'ng bullets).

Point is, engineers fix problems with an assortment of gadgets/tools, but nothing in the engineers book demands that they must do them all concurently, rather situationally... I suspect most engineers, as support-minded as they ussually are, will love another tool in the box.

"Engys need lotsa tools in the box, to fix the tools that cant think outa th'box..." - author unknown.

QFT

I say give it to Engineers imo.

[Immigrant]

Originally Posted by IWildVS

Exactly! Why would someone in a dedicated assault role want to break off his attack to run to you for ammo. No you would have to run to him and then hope he isnt too engaged to give you some. It's a support role for ammo supply. Let someone in that role run around to whoever needs it and give them what they need. How hard can this be?

Sweet, you actually believe that weak armored supporter like Engy will actually run to into crossfire to reach you when you cry MOAR AMMO!

I don't, but that perhaps because I'm a realist. HAs won't need to run to you, they be there in first rows, you'll run to them if you run out when they drop ammo to resupply themselves so you can grab some of the ammo they dropped.

Also that point of Engy-MAX combo being OP someone mentioned is also to be taken seriously into account if Engyies could both fix and supply them.

[Electrofreak]

Originally Posted by Immigrant

Sweet, you actually believe that weak armored supporter like Engy will actually run to into crossfire to reach you when you cry MOAR AMMO!

I don't, but that perhaps because I'm a realist. HAs won't need to run to you, they be there in first rows, you'll run to them if you run out when they drop ammo to resupply themselves so you can grab some of the ammo they dropped.

Also that point of Engy-MAX combo being OP someone mentioned is also to be taken seriously into account.

I remember Engies being in the thick of the battle in PS repairing armor without getting mowed down. In fact, in PS2 they can deploy shields and the like, so they're hardly defenseless.

And Engie-MAX is called teamwork. The solution is to kill the Engie, then the MAX. Plenty of ways to do this with 2 players on the opposing side.

[Immigrant]

Originally Posted by Electrofreak

I remember Engies being in the thick of the battle in PS repairing armor without getting mowed down. In fact, in PS2 they can deploy shields and the like, so they're hardly defenseless.

And Engie-MAX is called teamwork. The solution is to kill the Engie, then the MAX. Plenty of ways to do this with 2 players on the opposing side.

Perhaps because they were hiding behind the armor (tank or MAX or whatever)? I doubt that will be the same in pure infantry skirmishes, and if they are made so they could last long even then what would seriously be their weak spot? None?

Yeah right teamwork, however it's just the case that no other "teamwork" combination could possibly have this amount of power that this combo will have. HA-medic combo would be nowhere near that even if the Medic could actually resupply the HA with ammo. Most of the times you would have to go through MAX to reach the Engy and that would be tough and even when you kill one MAX could quite easily last until another one arrives or the same one respawns via drop-pod or in nearby Gal.

Get some perspective man... we all see that you like Engies very much but try to think about the game balance. What would be Engy weak spot if they could do that many things (almost everything)? Only possible solution I see is taking them away all the big guns and leaving them with basic pistols only.

Also Engies are prime choice for vehicle drivers/gunner and that is the role they are superior to any of other classes. Why should they need to have such a vital role in infantry game play anyway considering that?

[Nasher]

Originally Posted by atone

...
MAX CRASH 2.0 : engineer finds a couple of max units and just runs over everything in our path. repairing and resupplying the whole way.

Actually, I'm thinking this is the reason why they didn't give ammo drops to engi. 2 MAXes means a weapon to kill anything after customization, with unlimited ammo and repairs :o

"Just kill the engi" is easier said than done when the MAXes are blocking the way :P

[Zolan]

What class should carry ammo packs?

None of them.

[ArmedZealot]

Originally Posted by Zolan

What class should carry ammo packs?

None of them.

So brave.

[Hmr85]

Originally Posted by Nasher

Actually, I'm thinking this is the reason why they didn't give ammo drops to engi. 2 MAXes means a weapon to kill anything after customization, with unlimited ammo and repairs :o

"Just kill the engi" is easier said than done when the MAXes are blocking the way :P

HA with rockets. Focus fire down a target. Hit the engys with grenades. Its not that hard. That's why I don't really buy that argument. Your typical zerg player is gonna be like its not fair. Your typical team mentality player in a outfit will only see a way to counter it.

[Zolan]

If anyone gets ammo packs it should be the light assault, plain and simple.


Infiltrator? - Infinite camper - Nope

Medic? - They already have a job. - Nope

Engineer? - They already have enough jobs. - Nope

Heavy Assault? - Infinite Rocket/Nade/Chaingun/etc. Spam - Nope

MAX? - No... Just no.


With that in mind, the real question should be...

Should the Light Assault (or anyone for that matter) carry ammo? y/n

[Immigrant]

Ok, the main resentment behind HA having Ammo packs is them having too much of it, right? Or?

So let's say that currently HA has assault rifle (Cycler i.e.) pool of 250 bullets, that's about the standard for heavy automatic rifles in some games. If they cut that pool to 100 and supplied the rest via 1 Ammo packs of 200 (2 perhaps if they sacrificed their shield ability or something as crucial as that). Would that be acceptable? HA couldn't thus hog all the Ammo only for themselves since they couldn't take instantly or within a short time period all the ammo they would drop in Ammo pack. This wouldn't effectively increase their Ammo count at all yet it would it would give them a role of provider (support) too.

This is an only an example since I don't know the exact ammo count figures.

p.s. preparing for some HA rage coming my way right now....

[Zolan]

Heavy Assaults have rockets too. If you gave them ammo packs (infinite rockets) vehicles would be a joke.

The best solution is to just get rid of the ammo packs altogether.

Maybe give each of the classes some +ammo certs to help with longevity instead.

The good ole "One Extra" cert.
+1 rocket/+1 clip/+1 etc.

[KTNApollo]

If LA doesn't get the ammo, they'll bring nothing to the table other than mobility.

HA already has the jack of all trades status for AA/AI/AV so they can't have it.

Engineers also have too many things...Turrets/Repairs, if an Engineer could give out ammo they could run around with a MAX and endlessly keep it full on ammo and health. Doesn't this seem OP to anyone else?

Infiltrator already has cloak and long range potential, give them ammo dispensing and they'll never have to leave the enemy territory/sniping position.

Medic can revive and heal people. If they can give out ammo they can keep people alive and full on ammo just like the Engi/MAX, except Medics heal all 5 of the other classes. OP.

MAX can't have it for obvious reasons.

Think before you vote for Engineer. It would be incredibly OP. LA is the correct choice.

[Immigrant]

Originally Posted by Zolan

If you gave them ammo packs (infinite rockets) vehicles would be a joke.

Another specialist. Read the OP and my actual suggestion before making an uninformed judgement.

Originally Posted by KTNApollo

If LA doesn't get the ammo, they'll bring nothing to the table other than mobility.

Mobility an positional advantage what is a huge thing. They get the best overview of the battle ground most rapidly, their role in informing the other what's happening via the VOIP should be great. Also they should give them spotting ability possibly the OS ability too.

HAs should have low AA/AV ammo count and those should be only obtainable via terminals... that is the premise I operate under when suggesting them to carry Ammo packs. Also the hogging the ammo danger is much smaller with them if done correctly (see my previous posts ) since they can't jump to roof and other inaccessible safe spots to resupply like LAs will be doing.

[Grognard]

Originally Posted by Immigrant

Sweet, you actually believe that weak armored supporter like Engy will actually run to into crossfire to reach you when you cry MOAR AMMO!

I don't, but that perhaps because I'm a realist. HAs won't need to run to you, they be there in first rows, you'll run to them if you run out when they drop ammo to resupply themselves so you can grab some of the ammo they dropped.

Also that point of Engy-MAX combo being OP someone mentioned is also to be taken seriously into account if Engyies could both fix and supply them.

I'll address your point directly.

As I understand it, the unwavering premise, given what I have read, seems to be... Heavy Assault should have resupply capability. You do seem to be focusing more on this, than on who should have it, and of course the two are different in intent.

You have stated... "Give me one serious reason why HA shouldn't have few Ammo packs under conditions I stated in OP. I will accept if you make me see a major flaw in this concept.

So, I will try. I'm not trying to throw statistics I dont have at you, or present anything here as fact, when it is just my opinion. Take it as such.

There are two ways I can see this implemented:
1. HA+ AmmoResupply they can use.
2. HA+ AmmoResupply they can not use.

Point 1:
The serious reason why HA should not have resupply capability, if they can use it, is because they will. Its no longer resupply capability, it becomes "higher ammo capacity", which they can build into the class itself. The focus of this class, and this class in particular is "rounds down range". More rounds = better performance as a player. Just a tedious drop of a box, is a better performance button, and that is precisely what they will do.

Point 2:
The serious reason why HA should not have resupply capability, if they can not use it, is because being addressed for ammo, as support role is a major distraction to your focus, even if you are out of ammo for them. They will be saddled with "cmon man, need sum ammo dude", constantly. The last thing an HA guy needs to to be unduely focus on by the enemy, because he is unduely focus on by his own guys "bitching for bullets", making them a nice big clusterfuck of grenadebait. On top of that... it would likely be the same, as point 1., only in HA pairs now. Two HA will simply marry each other and "Ill do you, if you do me, until death do us part"... until the inevitable divorce at the end of the firefight.

The focus of the class is rounds down range, dish it, and take it. I would not want an HA to be expected to take his/her attention off of that job, even for a second to type "sorry out" if youre nice, or "fuck off" if your irritated after the 5th time, given my reasons above, as I too, am a realist. I suspect many HA will not want to be a "support guy" too, when they are directly in the thick of it, and can barely stay alive as it is.