SmedBlog (last year): NPC Enemies and Armies

[Graywolves]

Still no to the AI content.

Let players script the AI? This is all I can think of...



I really don't understand why you want to put laning into the game either. I coule see maybe linking two facilities and having some kind of influence-esque tug of war but actual waves of AI just doesn't feel Planetside.


What happened to Players being the content and competitive PvP?

[Galzus]

NPCs do not belong in PlanetSide. It would be a waste of server resources and development time. Everything I shoot should be a player.

[Sledgecrushr]

A huge HELL NO for player controlled npc armies.

[OnexBigxHebrew]

Down with it as events, maybe as a competition where the factions fight each other as they charge in for some sort of attainable goal that gives the winning faction a bonus. You'd have incentive for pvp and pve at the same time.

[Ghoest9]

As an OCCASIONAL event an NPC invasion could be fun.

It could also be done poorly and just be a blight on the game.

[Smed]

I should point out the simple fact that I'm having this discussion before the game even launches and in my blog I specifically noted that we plan on releasing the 3 year plan and taking player feedback. We've learned our lessons.

In terms of some of the comments I've been reading (which have been great btw) - someone asked the basic question of why we would introduce these NPC armies. The idea (and maybe it's a crappy one) is that we want you to feel like you're in a war and we're the heroes of that war. These NPC guys would be cyborgs perhaps or something like that. It's interesting to me that this particular idea is getting the response it is. This wasn't an idea that was high on the list. actually it was pretty far down. I'm just genuinely fascinated by the reaction. People have some great points both positive and negative.

Either way this one isn't on the high priority list anyways.

Originally Posted by Electrofreak

It's an interesting idea, Smed. Since I know you play EVE Online too (I've been playing since shortly after launch myself) I would compare it to Incursions. But a lot of us vets are pretty wary about the idea of fighting npcs, even if we can control the friendly npcs after a fashion.

Sorry if I'm a little bit gun shy, but I remember the excellent mechanics of PS1 set into a downward spiral by the introduction of BFRs, which seemed like a great idea at the time. And, not to bring up a sore subject, but many of us also remember a similar gameplay-wrenching change in SWG that basically destroyed the game for many players.

I would suggest that players, as excited as we are to hear about many of these changes, would also be comforted to hear that the development of PS2 will remain cautious, particularly to the more... innovative development avenues.

In EVE-Online, the introduction of heavily-priced microtransactions and Walking in Stations (launched in a half-baked form without any player-to-player interaction) almost spelled the death of a game that has gone for a decade while only increasing its subscriber base and community loyalty. EVE's developers made a rapid change in development direction when its players made it clear what they wanted from the game, and I still believe it's what saved the game.

We all need to know that SOE will lend us the same ear. The problem is that we, as players, often are just as excited as you, the developers, when it comes to a cool new concept.

I could link a video of myself back in 2004 excitedly asking questions of T-Ray, CriticalMass, and Fisa about upcoming PS1 features (during PSUMA in Orlando, FL). Some of the ideas seemed so great at the time, but ultimately sent PS1 into a tailspin. Hopefully we can avoid that this time around.

TL;DR - Be gentle with us Smed... we gamers are delicate and fickle creatures.

[adddemon]

Originally Posted by Smed

...We've learned our lessons...

I hope this does not mean you don't plan on sharing your 3 year plans in the future.

Sure, this one rustled just about all the jimmies (on both sides it seems), but its still better than just not talking about it at all, right?

[Roy Awesome]

Personally, i don't like NPCs in Planetside. It's a very active game, with players doing everything in it. This game most excites me because its not a guided tour through the Planetside theme park, going on rides and never revisiting them. If something happens in the game, that is because someone else is doing it. If they are on the other team, it's your decision to go stop them. Bases can be captured and retaken and recaptured over the course of many weeks without getting old.

Why add a theme park on top of that? Is it something the design of Planetside 2 is really missing? Will alien attacks really add to the game, or will they be the same as meteor showers and earthquakes...something cool that the devs get to throw out from time to time. I'm okay with an alien beast being like a meteor shower or something (rare event, most people don't believe it exists), but I really don't want it to be a Event Boss like Guild Wars has.

However, I'm not one to shoot down ideas and not offer alternatives: Give the players something to fight over. Don't approach things as 'destroy and done' events, because that is very theme-parky of modern MMOs. Give us something we can place. 'AI' controlled giant moving bases are something I can really get behind. The team that owns the thing can inject an AI script that makes the machine roll around the map doing things, and the other teams have to try to attack it and take it over, injecting their own scripts. This gives you AI control and something that isn't 'Destroy and Done'

EDIT: Another thing you can do with AI, as you mentioned in your blog, is Harvesters. Have AI controlled vehicles drive out and start mining. This will give small groups and raiding parties something non-permanent to do, and still get to say you have AI in this massive game

[Helwyr]

No

Reasons: Planetside is pure PvP, taint it with PvE (and yes that's what some of this is) these features could be the thin edge of a wedge for future developers of Planetside2 to expand on in some foolish attempt to attract SOE's EQ player base. Next thing we know we have PvE raids, and EQ/Wowish type players demanding to be free of PvP interference and all manner of other crap.

I haven't forgotten BlackOps in PS1 ...please don't do that again!

As rare events that would be ok, but here I just question resources. Development time would surely be better spent on something that enhancing the game as it is played regularly rather than for some events that happen a couple of times a year per server.

Modifiable AI for player deployables has promise. Sounds like something the Devs can do in a future expansion for both Engineering and Hacking in the game.

[CountMeIn]

Originally Posted by Hamma

I'm doing targeted feedback threads on all items from Smed's Blog. This one is for NPC Enemies/Armies.





Thoughts!

Horrible horrible news.

Originally Posted by OnexBigxHebrew

Down with it as events, maybe as a competition where the factions fight each other as they charge in for some sort of attainable goal that gives the winning faction a bonus. You'd have incentive for pvp and pve at the same time.

That would be nice tho, like event days like in TF2!

[camycamera]

i myself LOVE the idea of an NPC invasion. it would be cool to have all 3 factions (maybe) unite together to stop this invasion.... and then continue to fight again. or, maybe it could turn into a 4 way fight. imagine it, say the NC are attacked by these NPCs, and then another faction could use this distraction to capture bases behind enemy lines, etc. or there could be some sort of "trust" system implemented. for example, if you dont kill the NC or vanu, and help them, the trust increases. however, if you end up just killing them, the trust decreases, and then you could end up with a 4 way fight, and not just a two way fight (assuming that all 3 factions were working together).

and that commander thing with the npc's sounds cool, but i dont know how it would work if they implement it. does each player command a group of npcs, or only a selected few? and i bet these npcs that you control would be some type of cyborgs... that would be awesome, fighting along side them/commanding them. but, like someone said before, maybe it could be like a moving base or something that cannot be destroyed (but it can destroy you, once a faction has captured it), but then when say, the NC capture it, the person or people who captured it can use it and pwn with it etc. then, how about the TR come along, land on the thing, go inside, kill everyone inside, then capture it and control it! that sounds awesome. if you still dont get where i am going, then i'll give you an example from another game: halo 2. on one of the missions, there is a giant scarab machine that could not be destroyed (but destroyed lots of things), so the chief jumps on top of the scarab, goes inside, kills everyone including the driver, and then it malfunctions and is destroyed. it would be cool if it was like that, except that it doesn't get destroyed, but it is now captured and controlled by whoever infiltrated it.

and of course, there should be an option not to fight the npcs for all those guys who are strongly against PVE. i for one would love both PVE and PVP, however. but a good example of a game that puts PVP and PVE together is of course, Dayz. you could avoid fighting zombies as long as you keep your head down, and then go ahead and blow another player's head off and loot their stuff.

the possibilities are endless for planetside 2, cant wait to see what they come up with post-launch!

[saltyorange]

I normally just read these forums to keep up to date with how the game is coming along but I registered when I read this because this would easily ruin the whole game for me.

If I get killed I want it to be because of something a player did, when I kill things I want them to be players.

I don't really like the idea of devs trying to make everyone feel heroic, not everyone can be a badass because if they were badass would become the new normal. It's really up to the player if they want to do something really cool they need to do something really cool. If I remember right part of the reason for getting rid of SWGs old professions and replacing them was to add new iconic classes that made people feel like the heroes from the movies, I don't think that worked.

It's pretty cool that they are telling the community ahead of time what they are considering though. Seems like the normal company procedure is to keep everything a big secret until they have already spent time developing it and feel the need to push it out even if people hate it because they spent time/money on it already.

This doesn't really belong here but going to slap it in real quick anyways. I really like the outfit bases on continents with rare resources reminds me of eve, really cool shit.

[RabbleRabble]

I'm ALL for an alien invasion. Face it, how many interesting events do devs ever do in an MMO? Not a whole lot. Usually they're very generic and predictable and not worth your time.

Having 3 factions repel a common enemy sounds a good change of pace, just have it occur like 2-4 times per year so it won't disrupt too much from the core game. I'm skeptical for most of the naysayers. Most of the community here I assume played PS1 and are too attached to how it use to do things. With the tech today I think it's a great idea to try these ideas, keep in mind PS2 is aiming to attract a wider crowd so an alien invasion scenario would spark interest in a lot of people since it's not something you ever see or get to experience in a game, let alone an MMOFPS.

[Smed]

Originally Posted by Graywolves

Still no to the AI content.

Let players script the AI? This is all I can think of...
Automaton 2000 Micro - Dodging Siege Tanks - YouTube



I really don't understand why you want to put laning into the game either. I coule see maybe linking two facilities and having some kind of influence-esque tug of war but actual waves of AI just doesn't feel Planetside.


What happened to Players being the content and competitive PvP?

not laning precisely. In fact that's kind of the whole point of the AI. Lots of different ways to get npcs from base A to base B. Maybe some fly. Maybe some stealth in.. etc, etc.

[LayZ]

Originally Posted by Smed

The idea (and maybe it's a crappy one) is that we want you to feel like you're in a war and we're the heroes of that war.

If thats the case then this game becomes more of an RPG. I think a lot of people coming to this game, both from the original Planetside and from other shooters don't want to play an RPG.

That sounds like the tag line of every MMORPG out there.