Make night time dark.

[Shade Millith]

I don't really know what to think on this.

I like the IDEA for realism, but at the same time...

I'm on the fence for this one.

[cellinaire]

I personally don't care as long as it's not pitch black.

[WaryWizard]

All of Warborn's posts have been about not wanting pitch black nights I agree. I do however want the night to be a little darker than it currently is.

[Hamma]

Night should be very dark but you have to remember they need to keep the fun element in too. If it was so dark everyone needed to crank their gamma or have special unlocks (NV, Thermal) in order to compete that is not fun for everyone.

The game design requires it to be at least fun or people will not look forward to it or avoid the game during night.

As much as I'd love pitch black it just won't work because of what I mentioned above. It has to be fun first and foremost.

[Khellendros]

My view is that night needs to be dark enough to induce a change in how we play. In other words, if we do everything at night exactly the same way we do in daytime, then it is not dark enough. Night is a way to bring a little more variety to the game.

Some people are complaining that night would be boring, but I can't see that, honestly. It multiplies the tactical and strategic possibilities in this game, and that is a good thing. Say, that base that was so difficult to take in the day because of it's great defensive sight lines? Maybe the cover of night will allow the attacking forces to execute some tactic that wasn't possible during the day.

I think it's going to be awesome.

[Vancha]

Originally Posted by Warborn

No, of course you're right, it's all just a coincidence, I'm sure of it.

Players don't like to not know what the hell is going on. Nobody likes getting killed by someone they can't even see because it's too dark. People don't tolerate that kind of stuff unless it's just that kind of game. Planetside 2 isn't that kind of game. Instead it's something that is meant to appeal to as broad an audience as possible. Putting in amazingly frustrating experiences like really dark nights would drive off more people than it would ensnare with its lame appeal to strategy or depth.

It isn't an accident that games like Fallout 3 or Half-Life 2 have pretty bright nights and somehow manage to be Game of the Year material. People who're looking to play a game like Fallout 3 or Half-Life 2 aren't looking for the kind of experience that consists of roaming around in the dark, unable to see anything, while someone, somewhere shoots them in the balls. Ditto for Planetside 2.

You can say that, well, if you use teamwork and coordination and something-something, but most people will not be actively working together when they play the game. Only a minority will ever really get organized. So making something that demands coordination and teamwork to achieve anything will only make the game what they call "inaccessible". Which is "not a good thing".

Before Planetside, you could use similar logic to say an FPS game should never be an MMO, but fortunately someone had the balls to try it. "It isn't an accident that all the successful FPS' have 32 players maximum. Nobody likes being killed by someone they can't even see because they're invisible, there's a reason stealth roles only exist in single player games. Putting in extremely frustrating experiences like having to rely on other players to drive or command etc. would drive off more players than it'd draw. There's a reason we put such things in the hands of AI and mission objectives.

By all means try and find flaws in an idea, but to say something shouldn't be done because it hasn't been done is just silly.



That isn't what I'm advocating and I'm not sure anyone else is either. As WaryWizard said, people should be able to operate effectively without requiring night vision.

[Warborn]

Originally Posted by Vancha

By all means try and find flaws in an idea, but to say something shouldn't be done because it hasn't been done is just silly.

It has been done. Am I a broken record? I feel like I am. It's been done, and done, and done in all sorts of games. It's easy to see what people will enjoy and under what circumstances. But it isn't like MMOs have never done this before, either. Dark nights, hard to see? Well, WW2OL came out two years before Planetside did, it's an MMOFPS which had seriously dark nights. EverQuest had seriously dark nights, and it came out even earlier. Dark nights have been done in MMOFPS games, MMORPGs, and all manner of single-player and online multiplayer forms.

So no, Planetside 2 having really dark nights would not be a new thing. It would be something that has been done before, and its results would be predictable based on that.

edit: Read my next paragraph before you respond to this because I don't think we're actually on different sides of the issue here.

Originally Posted by Vancha

That isn't what I'm advocating and I'm not sure anyone else is either. As WaryWizard said, people should be able to operate effectively without requiring night vision.

Hah, what a joke. You know what some of the words I've been writing have been? Well, one particular phrase is: People should be able to operate effectively without requiring night vision. That's my line. You've stolen it. The side I'm arguing against is the side that says if you go out without night vision you shouldn't be able to see basically anything. That's what VioletZero and others are advocating. It's this whole big thing about forcing people to somehow be more strategic because nobody really has any idea what's happening because it's too dark. Violet literally billed it, unironically, as inhibiting gameplay enjoyment for the sake of deeper strategy, and made a fucking poll about it that people voted against making the game fun in. You see what I'm up against, here?

I like darkness. I like the night time. I always use darker nights/dungeons/whatever mods for my games. But I also like being able to perceive the game world. Finding a balance between having a cool, atmospheric night experience but not a) killing players' eyes or b) forcing them to play in a very particular fashion because of something arbitrary like time of day is all I'm against. Having darkness where distant shapes aren't so clear but you can make out movement and stuff, and having night vision/flashlights/etc is an asset, that's all cool.

Hell, I'd even like it if destroying the generator of a base plunged it into that Aliens style red emergency light business. Using lighting for atmosphere and mood is great, just so long as it doesn't grind gameplay to a standstill.

[DayOne]

What if night vision/torches etc. were only needed inside? Say, abandoned buildings, canyons, as mentioned before, thick forests/jungles?

[Vancha]

Originally Posted by Warborn

Read my next paragraph before you respond to this because I don't think we're actually on different sides of the issue here.

Are you sure you're arguing against anyone other than Violet? As I said a couple of pages back, I went through the entire thread and the only person who said either that game days should be as long as real-world days or that nightvision should be restricted in any way (to recon, in this case), was Violet. Similarly, the only people who've proposed anything near the extremes of darkness have suggested either having eyes adjust in the dark, having ample light sources and having it be a special event in the lunar cycle...I'm not sure anyone's arguing for the thing you're imagining.

Originally Posted by WaryWizard

You should still be able to play the game relatively well without night vision even on the darkest nights. I just think that(from what I've seen) the night should be darkened a few candelas.

This is the quote I was talking about.

Also, I'm not sure citing examples of games that came before Planetside, nearly a decade ago, are good examples as for why something that's graphically dependent shouldn't be added to a game. Lighting and shadows have come a long way since WWII Online...

[Warborn]

There have been a few other people who argued against me earlier on and concurred with what Violet wrote otherwise. Would it be a major problem if it was the original poster alone I was arguing with? I mean, that isn't the case, but would it make a difference?

The first page is entirely people agreeing with the OP. "Do you agree with making night time super dark like it is in real life? Post your thoughts." is how the OP ended, followed by a series of "I agree"'s. So what are you going on about here, that nobody is in favour of what I'm "imagining" people are? Until I said something the only issue there was discussion over was how long these super-dark nights should last.

[Vancha]

Originally Posted by Warborn

There have been a few other people who argued against me earlier on and concurred with what Violet wrote otherwise. Would it be a major problem if it was the original poster alone I was arguing with? I mean, that isn't the case, but would it make a difference?

The first page is entirely people agreeing with the OP. "Do you agree with making night time super dark like it is in real life? Post your thoughts." is how the OP ended, followed by a series of "I agree"'s. So what are you going on about here, that nobody is in favour of what I'm "imagining" people are? Until I said something the only issue there was discussion over was how long these super-dark nights should last.

Yes, dark. Dark enough to impact gameplay. Not "anemic". No one used the words pitch black except Jimmuc on page 2.

Are you surprised that people explain themselves more elaborately when they're being argued with? Both Seagoon and Wary clarified their stances within 3 pages. Even Hmr who sounds like he was closest to Violet's vision of night fighting advocated some level of ability to see, with plenty of light sources and easily accessible night vision.

Edit: And yes, if you're referring to "people" and arguing against a group of people when you're only in disagreement with one person, I'd say it probably makes a difference.

[Warborn]

Oh okay well I guess we don't agree or maybe we do I don't know but hey let's keep making arguing about it anyway hurf durf postin' on the Internet.

[Vancha]

What can I say? I like making arguing.

[TheBladeRoden]

If one team takes out the generator, the base lights better flicker out and it's all dark with but a few sporadic emergency lights here and there. Then you'd have your survival horror for the defending team. OOoOoOoh! Spooky!

[Coreldan]

ANT running has been replaced with...

...flare duty

Think, if the designated flare guy fails to illuminate the battlefield, the TR and VS scum might get to surprise us!