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2012-07-25, 05:08 AM | [Ignore Me] #136 | |||
Second Lieutenant
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But if there's no telling how poeple who are aware the possibilty and are trained and prepared for it will react, how the fuck can you sit there and say that; "if only someone in that theatre had a gun... he/she would have stopped him". Get the fuck real, okay? And even if someone had drawn a piece, stood up and fiered back... he would just have put the poeple in there in more danger. There's a reason the police doesn't take chances when there's civilians involved. And there's a reason civilians get up and get the fuck out of there own village in Afghanistan when there's a patrol coming. Two guns firing is double the danger from only one in almost any scenario.
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2012-07-25, 06:28 AM | [Ignore Me] #137 | |||
Sergeant Major
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Combat experience counts. Barring that, training still counts. Whether or not the trained and/or combat experienced person is wearing a uniform does not count. And that seems to be the direction that you and Warborn are arguing toward. |
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2012-07-25, 07:28 AM | [Ignore Me] #139 | |||
Second Lieutenant
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You have to understand that this is not about all the people that would use their gun responsibly. It's about the ones that wont. And I'm not talking about crazy nut jobs that goes to war in a movie theatre or in a school. I'm talking about normal people that just aren't responisbe. Kids that think a gun makes them cool. Or what about guns + the use of alcohol? A regular bar fight that used to end with a broken lip and bruises suddenly sends 2-3 people to the morgue. A government that think that that is an acceptable risk to take just so people CAN carry firearms where they want, when they want, is not fit to govern a country/state.
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2012-07-25, 07:35 AM | [Ignore Me] #140 | |||
1) more guns in that theatre in the hands of unprepared, untrained gun-owners would have caused more deaths once the shooting started 2) owning a firearm and knowing how to use it because you spend time at the range doesn't make you properly equipped and properly trained to handle a gunman |
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2012-07-25, 07:48 AM | [Ignore Me] #141 | ||||
Sergeant Major
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2012-07-25, 07:53 AM | [Ignore Me] #142 | |||
Second Lieutenant
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2012-07-25, 08:01 AM | [Ignore Me] #143 | |||
Sergeant Major
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You know, "from my cold dead hands" and all. |
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2012-07-25, 08:51 AM | [Ignore Me] #144 | |||
Can any of you say the same? I'm sure many of you could. But ask yourself, honestly: are you prepared to die for a perfect stranger? Are you prepared to face down a hail of gunfire and risk a crippling injury, horrific pain, and even death? Will you, when the moment comes, be found wanting or will you stand your ground? I don't think a great many people have thought this through, fully. They think "I have a gun, I am invincible." If you go to a theatre alone, I fully support you killing yourself in order to make sure that my family can go home with me. If you're in a theatre with someone else, your first priority should be getting them to safety. If your first priority is to draw down and kill someone else, you have serious fucking problems and you need to put that weapon in a gun safe and unfuck your brain first. Life is not a video game and there are no respawns until the zombie apocalypse. As for all you foreigners with your fanciful notions of why America should be like your country: coulda, woulda, shoulda, but didn't. I don't deal in what-ifs. I don't deal in fantasy unless it's erotic fantasies. You can pontificate and lecture all you want about how my country's society is fucked up and how your society is better. That's fine, that's cool, have fun with that. I don't deal in what-ifs. I deal in reality. The reality is that for whatever reason, our country has a problem with violence. For whatever reason, our country has access to firearms for private citizens. That is the world in which I live. I also live in a world where people, foreign and domestic, want to kill other Americans for whatever reason. This is the world in which I live, and I have adapted. All of your internet-typings solve exactly zero problems. It's fun to sit here and debate with you, but at the end of the day when I go to sleep at night the world is still the same place and America is still the same place. It's not going to change overnight. Until the day comes when I don't need to worry about protecting my family, I will live in a state where I am able to have a firearms license and I will own a firearm. Woe betide the cocksucker who comes into my house with the intent to take something that isn't theirs. |
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2012-07-25, 09:18 AM | [Ignore Me] #145 | |||
Is it realistic to expect all properly trained individuals to react appropriately? No, but then again the training is designed to keep you from drawing your weapon in the first place until there is no other option. |
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2012-07-25, 10:10 AM | [Ignore Me] #147 | |||
Second Lieutenant
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And stop trying to justify this by presenting training as an option. It is not realistic, and people wont do it, they wont have time to do it, and it wont stop people from taking advatage of it.
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2012-07-25, 10:56 AM | [Ignore Me] #148 | |||
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2012-07-25, 12:26 PM | [Ignore Me] #149 | |||
Master Sergeant
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Most places dont allow you to carry a weapon in public, without a carry license that requires a back ground check, no criminal convictions, no mental illness and you're required to qualify with an instructor. (granted when my dad got his, and put the first shots dead center the instructor advised him of the following....if your qualifying score is very high, if you ever have to go to court, they are going to look at your accuracy...if you are really accurate, it will be difficult to say you didnt mean to kill him....whereas, if you barely qualify, you have a reasonable chance of saying you were lucky to even hit him....Dad fired the remainder of his shots into the ground.) |
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2012-07-25, 12:56 PM | [Ignore Me] #150 | ||
I'm not talking about private property. I'm talking about public carry of weapons. In many states/cities you can carry a pistol unconcealed in public. But, as soon as you are on private property, you are subject to the limits imposed by the owner. The contention being that the vast majority of 'public' situations where a firearm would be helpful in resolving a situation happen on private property where neither the victim or the suspect were representatives of that owner. So even by being a good Samaritan and carrying your CCW with your permit and your .38, you are still very likely to face legal actions of the property owner.
It's a big mess truth be told and many third parties are trying to inject their own spooge into the orgy. At the end of the day, the only thing we can be sure of is that on our own property we have the right to defend ourselves against unannounced guests with unreasonable intentions. Unless you live in the UK, where you can be sued by a burgler for cutting themselves on your broken window... that they broke to get into your house. Bollox. |
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