Gameplay: Outfit Air Cruisers Redux

[Baneblade]

Originally Posted by Gugabalog

I suppose. Maybe it could drop troops as well as vehicles+ deploy air wings directly.

Could they be boarded and 100% accessible or would there be safe areas with in them? and depending on their cost they should be difficult to deter/disable/destroy.

The current design incarnation has infantry deployment systems (drop pods).

No safe areas, 100% permeable defense.

Originally Posted by Gugabalog

Not having spawn tubes is an interesting idea. Would mean manually manning it. But unlikely.

It would make them much much more difficult to defend against an enemy boarding, which would mean they would be easier to lose, which means their cost would need to be lower overall.

Originally Posted by Tzitzimitl

I believe the way this should be implemented should be on their own continent(or something similar). And they should have an effect on ground-battles and be target able by ground vehicles.

The idea was to put in a naval game and outfit ownership features without disrupting the base game by taking away from it like a space or water based navy would.

Also, define 'effect on ground battles'. They already are vulnerable to ground vehicles.

On this new continent there should also be missile silo that can damage and take down one of these OAC. This being a persistent game would make missile silos valuable in such a way that they could potentially become key facilities. Also bases should be equipped with launch pods that allow defenders to board these OAC. This would potentially add a tactical layer as you choose between having them be a logistic ship or a combat ship by deciding to bring them close to bases.

The silo would be fine as long as whoever fires it is paying out the nose.

Also land vehicles should not be spawn-able on these because it would take away from the importance of tech plants/towers.

That is like saying having a spawn room on board will take away from the importance of base spawns.

Bane has talked about them having a maintenance cost and i propose one of the costs to these could be having it use resource when it fires it weapons.

Replenish weapons maybe, but a rich get richer scenario is not the way to do things in PS2.

What if it had little to no AA guns so that it would have to rely on escort Fighters for defence? This could potentially make it something that outfits could specialize in/ cause co-operation of outfits.

A fighter screen is more effective than point defense guns already, no need to do that as well.

Originally Posted by Gugabalog

But yea, eliminate the vehicle spawning, except for air. And the Galaxy eliminates the need for launch pods. So no launch pods please.

It would be interesting if vehicles were the only way to leave an OAC. Maybe the Lodestar will debut in time to make it possible to deploy MBTs and Sunderers.

[berzerkerking]

One of the most orderly threads i've seen.
Every 8 or so questions there is a mass answering session. Keep up the good work.

[Tzitzimitl]

Originally Posted by Baneblade

The idea was to put in a naval game and outfit ownership features without disrupting the base game by taking away from it like a space or water based navy would.

Also, define 'effect on ground battles'. They already are vulnerable to ground vehicles.

Yea i forgot to elaborate this part, but their effect on ground battles. This effect could be having AV and AI weapons that would effect the ground. It can have AA weapons to effect air battles. If they had such an effect it would make them really strong and it would require it be separated. I guess the question would be do we want OAC with minimal effect on battles or OAC with such a strong effect that it changes the battlefield?

The silo would be fine as long as whoever fires it is paying out the nose.

I was actually think more along the lines of the silos having a 1 hex range(?) but your idea could potentially work

That is like saying having a spawn room on board will take away from the importance of base spawns.

The point i was trying to make would be that ground vehicles would be spawned from it allowing for a faster deployment. This faster deployment has the potential to take away from tech/towers. Perhaps, your right but this would have to be play tested to truly find out.

Replenish weapons maybe

I meant this

[berzerkerking]

replenishing weapons seems almost guaranteed by its size, kind of like the galaxy.

[Baneblade]

Originally Posted by Tzitzimitl

Yea i forgot to elaborate this part, but their effect on ground battles. This effect could be having AV and AI weapons that would effect the ground. It can have AA weapons to effect air battles. If they had such an effect it would make them really strong and it would require it be separated. I guess the question would be do we want OAC with minimal effect on battles or OAC with such a strong effect that it changes the battlefield?

I took great care to keep Air Cruisers from directly influencing the order of battle on the surface of Auraxis. BFRs went a long way toward ruining the original PlanetSide and I don't want a rehash of that on an even more insurmountable scale. The AA abilities they have are not overpowering due to limited arcs and the lack of flak and missile point defense weapons.

The main weapons and secondary weapons are intended to engage other Air Cruisers first and foremost, though I suspect they might get a lucky hit on a Galaxy once in awhile too.

I was actually think more along the lines of the silos having a 1 hex range(?) but your idea could potentially work

Well, if the intention is to create a method of area denial against an Air Cruiser, it might work. As long as they aren't literally everywhere. But, keep in mind that it is a weapon the Cruiser can't retaliate against without first making the weapons into air to ground.

The point i was trying to make would be that ground vehicles would be spawned from it allowing for a faster deployment. This faster deployment has the potential to take away from tech/towers. Perhaps, your right but this would have to be play tested to truly find out.

Well one of the perks of an OAC is exactly that, faster deployment of outfit forces to the theater. I think outfits with the wherewithal and gumption to focus on obtaining and keeping an OAC have justified some secondary perks for it. As long as they are not directly overpowering.

ACs are balanced due to their inability to fight back against most none AC units. The counters to non AC units are the same as they always were: Other non AC units.

[Program]

Though this discussion has moved on quite far, I'll just say it anyway: this does seem like too much for the ground areas, but if they implement space battles, this would be great.

P.S. Great job on elaborating on your idea.

[Baneblade]

Originally Posted by Program

Though this discussion has moved on quite far, I'll just say it anyway: this does seem like too much for the ground areas, but if they implement space battles, this would be great.

P.S. Great job on elaborating on your idea.

I was hoping PS2 maps would be larger than they are slated to be honestly. The idea is a port of the original series of ideas for PS1, where the maps were vastly larger than the actual land masses.

[Buggsy]

If there were large immobile artillery (that players place themselves) pieces that could hit slow moving targets, like giant floating battleships, than giant floating battleships would be no big deal (i'm thinking of BF2142's Titan and the BF2142 missile silos that hit the Titans).

Originally Posted by Akadios

It seems he is imagining this, from 2142. It worked there but of course the game ended when you killed the other teams and there were only two. If they found a way to make them so expensive as to be really limited or something it could work. I don't think it would unbalance anything as they can be infiltrated and captured/destroyed by infantry. It would be no different than just having a slow moving Tech Plant flying above the battlefield.

Titan vs. Titan shooting at each other in the air would have looked cool from the ground. Too bad that never happened.

[Gugabalog]

Ok, I see this working amazingly for space battles.

Maybe the empty continent they do for outfit bases could be SPACE?
Give zerg a reason to join outfits... and besides... SPACE!

Easy to do...just make an empty zone with a spawn platform and a mechanic for the outfit ships...

But if they're feeling ambitious maybe they could have different tiers of ships for outfits to have...

[berzerkerking]

where things go /bump in the night

[Buggsy]

Originally Posted by Gugabalog

Give zerg a reason to join outfits...

Unless outfit members wear bells around their necks, I find it difficult to tell the difference between outfits and zerg. They all do the same thing.

[Gugabalog]

^ Depends on the outfit.

[Baneblade]

Originally Posted by Buggsy

Unless outfit members wear bells around their necks, I find it difficult to tell the difference between outfits and zerg. They all do the same thing.

Well the obvious difference is that outfits are usually coordinated, while the zerg tends to not be coordinated. Of course some outfits are the zerg with a name, while others are the zerg enablers.

A heavy armor outfit on the front lines might be confused with the zerg, till you realize those forty two Vanguards are moving in formations and are alpha striking Sunderers without having to fire twice.

The Vanguard is going to be the worst zergling tank in the game, yet the best outfit tank at the same time.

[Gugabalog]

I would contest that claim and say the prowler would be the best outfit tank as its speed empowers blitzkrieg style tactics. Have infantry in sunderers follow up and unload into capture points and voila. Maybe have a squad of tank camp the spawn tubes if not destroy them too, and have the rest take up different positions to keep the base secure against reinforcements while the infantry clear it out.

[berzerkerking]

Originally Posted by Gugabalog

I would contest that claim and say the prowler would be the best outfit tank as its speed empowers blitzkrieg style tactics. Have infantry in sunderers follow up and unload into capture points and voila. Maybe have a squad of tank camp the spawn tubes if not destroy them too, and have the rest take up different positions to keep the base secure against reinforcements while the infantry clear it out.

I dissagree. I believe that the speed would lead to uncoordinated lone-wolfing