Please remove Vehicle seat swapping.

[Zulthus]

Originally Posted by Klockan

But the devs set the rules of what new things are in the future and that isn't in. The point is that you can't use the "it is unrealistic" argument. So, lets just end this discussion here and talk about gameplay implications since it is those that matters. It is realistic with instant vehicle role changes, but is it good for the game?

Since when are video games supposed to be realistic? This is a sci-fi game, remember that. But no, it is not good for the game. You shouldn't be able to switch to your AA turret just because an aircraft appears. You should be fucked because you decided to go solo. You can rape all the tanks you want with your AV weapon but there needs to be a delay on switching so that aircraft can fuck your vehicle up before you get the chance to retaliate. That's the price of not bringing a gunner.

[Marinealver]

Originally Posted by maradine

Please keep vehicle swapping.

Solo practitioners will not be able to deal with two threat classes at once.

Agreed, I actuall say add another seat and keep the swapings. Oh well we will find out what happens.

[Klockan]

Originally Posted by Zulthus

Since when are video games supposed to be realistic? This is a sci-fi game, remember that.

It is your side who argue that seat swapping is unrealistic and thus shouldn't be in the game, not anyone else. You just killed your own argument that I already killed, congratulations.

Originally Posted by Zulthus

But no, it is not good for the game. You shouldn't be able to switch to your AA turret just because an aircraft appears. You should be fucked because you decided to go solo. You can rape all the tanks you want with your AV weapon but there needs to be a delay on switching so that aircraft can fuck your vehicle up before you get the chance to retaliate. That's the price of not bringing a gunner.

You can see it that way or you can see it as a way to promote skilled play. Teamplay in vehicles will be promoted as long as each seat is more valuable than a footsoldier, making the most out of each tank is important.

[Sledgecrushr]

This being sci fi you should be able to operate all of the weapons via remote control from the other side of Auraxis. Just a little one second delay would punish a solo driver enough I think.

[Zulthus]

Originally Posted by Klockan

It is your side who argue that seat swapping is unrealistic and thus shouldn't be in the game, not anyone else. You just killed your own argument that I already killed, congratulations.

That was more me mocking you for saying this game is supposed to be a realism sim. Whereas instantly switching spots in a vehicle is not realistic at all.

Originally Posted by Klockan

You can see it that way or you can see it as a way to promote skilled play. Teamplay in vehicles will be promoted as long as each seat is more valuable than a footsoldier, making the most out of each tank is important.

Pressing F2 and instantly swapping to your AA turret to take out an aircraft is not skilled play. It's cheap and shouldn't be able to be done.

Originally Posted by Sledgecrushr

This being sci fi you should be able to operate all of the weapons via remote control from the other side of Auraxis. Just a little one second delay would punish a solo driver enough I think.

Hey, that's pretty much what I'm saying, going off of most of the logic in this thread.




*sigh* might as well leave now, this is a very pointless thing to be arguing about, it's so far off topic it isn't even funny

[Azarga]

I think that we should be able to swap seats, NOT instantaniously but with some delay, say 2.5 or even 3.25 sec. That's a long time in combat.

[Klockan]

Originally Posted by Zulthus

That was more me mocking you for saying this game is supposed to be a realism sim. Whereas instantly switching spots in a vehicle is not realistic at all.

Firstly I didn't say that this should be a realism sim and secondly it is realistic to instantly switching spots in a vehicle, it is done today in almost all aircrafts.

Originally Posted by Zulthus

Pressing F2 and instantly swapping to your AA turret to take out an aircraft is not skilled play. It's cheap and shouldn't be able to be done.

Requires way more skill than just sitting in the AA and waiting for some aircraft to appear.

[EisenKreutzer]

Dedicated driver and gunner, animations for entering and exiting vehicles, no seat swapping in vehicles, manual transmition, vehicle fuel..

You know, all of these suggestions seem fine on their own, but all together? With all of those things, PS2 would be a tedious war-sim that I would not want to play, just as I have no interest in playing ArmA 2.

Do people really want all these things? Do you really want a slow, pondering, cumbersome game of minute tactics and grueling detail, where absolutely every choice has grave, potentially game-ruining consequences?

I do not. I want a fast-paced, modern FPS with a heavy focus on teamplay, not a realistic war-simulator with sci-fi paint on.

[sylphaen]

I suggest that instead of talking about delays, we instead talk about "timings".

When you get the jump on someone who is not ready and positioned, should he be able to instantly pull out the correct weapon or should a timing be involved ?

I think for instance that there should be a risk/reward balance in the choices you make in the game:
- healing should be risky
- reviving should be risky
- hacking should be risky
- repairing should be risky
- being along in your vehicle on the wrong seat should be risky

There should be benefits for catching a player off-guard but as far as we have seen, it's only done through the low TTK. However, instant everything is a bit too fast imo.

It was definitely possible to play alone with a vehicle in PS1 and man all the guns. It was just very risky to do so because it took time to switch from one position to the other.
e.g.:
- in a skyguard, bailing while slowing down and jumping in the gun seat took 4-5 seconds. Very risky manoeuver but if the aircav did not spot you first, you would take them down easy.
- if you were caught up with the wrong gun in hand (like the healing gun) at the wrong moment, you would get toasted because switching back to your rifle (holstering medgun+pulling out rifle) took a 1-2 seconds. It was a choice between safe healing and readiness.

Some people on these forums keep talking about eSports so my guess is they watch some SC2 webcasts. There is a similar concept to which zerg players are familiar: if you over-drone, you may not be ready for an attack but if you are not attacked, you end up a great deal forward.

To me, choosing what to do and when is just as important as knowing where to aim and how to shoot.

I am against instant seat swapping.
I am against instant vehicle entry/exit.
On the other hand, I am not saying it should be super slow. There should be balance in all things and I find that instant is a bit extreme. It can't get faster than instant so we are definitely sitting at one end of the spectrum for the moment.

[Coreldan]

There is a huge difference between not making it slow and tedious and allowing for ridicilous soloing by allowing INSTANT seat switching. I'm not against it per se, but it needs to be done so that it's not viable to go around solo and still manage too good.

Sure, a fully manned crew is going to be better, but that doesnt really stop people from solowhoring with the tanks in BF3 either.

[EisenKreutzer]

Originally Posted by Coreldan

There is a huge difference between not making it slow and tedious and allowing for ridicilous soloing by allowing INSTANT seat switching.

What you call ridiculous soloing, I call viability of solo play. Honestly, i do not believe this will be a huge issue. The beta may prove me wrong, and we should definately try it out en masse to see if it really is an issue, but as of now i do not think that the option of running solo in a tank will in any way negatively impact the gameplay.

You don't have to break out the whips and chains to ensure that players play cooperatively and rely on teamwork. The massive size of Planetside 2, the way mechanics like resources and base capture work, the in-game voice chat and such systems will ensure that.

[Coreldan]

Originally Posted by EisenKreutzer

What you call ridiculous soloing, I call viability of solo play. Honestly, i do not believe this will be a huge issue. The beta may prove me wrong, and we should definately try it out en masse to see if it really is an issue, but as of now i do not think that the option of running solo in a tank will in any way negatively impact the gameplay.

You don't have to break out the whips and chains to ensure that players play cooperatively and rely on teamwork. The massive size of Planetside 2, the way mechanics like resources and base capture work, the in-game voice chat and such systems will ensure that.

I hope your right :P That said, I'm not concerned anyways. I'm sure if it ends up as a problem, SOE will do something about it.

Or then I'll just have to go solo-tank-lame-mode Higby so much that he starts hate the feature and adds a delay or something

[sylphaen]

Truth be told, I am still very sour they took out the solo play viability I had with Lasher 2.0.


@Eisen: no worries, just poking some fun.

I am in the same train of thought with Coreldan on this topic. Hopefully, it turns out for the best.

[EisenKreutzer]

Originally Posted by Coreldan

I hope your right :P That said, I'm not concerned anyways. I'm sure if it ends up as a problem, SOE will do something about it.

I'm glad I'm not the only voice of moderation here. There are plenty of people to advocate the extremes of these issues, but not enough who point out the middle ground. :P

Beta will tell us all we need to know about these things. ^^

[NCLynx]

1.5 second delay to change seats while taking no damage. Taking damage resets the 1.5 second delay.