IMO KillCam killing the Game

[Beagle]

I see a good 15 pages in this thread and I get the feeling most of it reflects the first and last couple of pages of "Killcam ruining the game SoE selling us out the designers don't know how to make their own game"

Angry posts about PS2 "selling out" and "going for the CoD audience" do not help. People are seeing Killcams and can't stop themselves from imagining their dreams of sniping from the same spot for half an hour being crushed, or that it will somehow ruin everything you do, or something similar.

Consider that the people who live and breathe this game and design it for a living and, as you can tell through the quality and volume of community interaction we've had, are huge fans themselves, actually know what they're doing and that if they're considering Killcams there's probably a good reason! Consider also that if these Killcams don't end up working out for the reasons the designers want them to, they'll be removed anyway.

What if a Killcam really does help new players immensely? There is no point making your feedback contribution to the development of this game something like "SoE sold out, going for the console kids, Killcam will ruin PS2". If their idea is they want to sell out and just go for the biggest market and screw their vets, then why do they spend so much time working with you here?

Please - don't use the excuse of being a self-styled grumpy old man to give poor feedback to the most enthusiastic, transparent, competent-looking devs I've seen in recent memory, and let's wait and see for Killcams in how they help the actual game instead of getting all worked up over nothing. Every post that conveys only passionate fear of a new game mechanic without realistic concerns as to why just dilutes any good feedback the thread could offer.

[Figment]

Originally Posted by Beagle

Consider also that if these Killcams don't end up working out for the reasons the designers want them to, they'll be removed anyway.

Yeaaaah SOE trackrecord suggests they always do that with things that end up hurting the game.


And you did actually miss some proper discussion in the middle, even if a lot of it comes down to what you said. It's not just fear though, seems to be mostly experience with other killcams.

[Beagle]

Originally Posted by Figment

Yeaaaah SOE trackrecord suggests they always do that with things that end up hurting the game.

May as well jump ship now then

Originally Posted by Figment

And you did actually miss some proper discussion in the middle, even if a lot of it comes down to what you said. It's not just fear though, seems to be mostly experience with other killcams.

Totally, I just think it's really bad to have a lot of it come down to what I said. If it were all that kind of proper discussion you're talking about this would be a really important thread for Devs to read - as is I see a lot of knee-jerk reactions and a lot of these posts (particularly in the Iron Sight thread) strike me as "modern shooters are the devil".

[FRIENDLYUNIT]

I'm an emphatic no. I want a "thinking persons shooter" experience from PS2.
If I wanted any CoD or BF elements I'd just play that.

[Marsgrim]

How would it work with cloakers??

Cloaker infiltrates a base, kills a defender from a good camping spot covering a few doorways for example. Dead guy on voice comm "Yeah he's in the corner by the crate".

Cloaker has to move to a less optimal position,or if darklight is in the game he's found in seconds.

In short, kill cam is good for FPS deathmatch but not for any objective based game with bases to defend/attack.

[acosmo]

Originally Posted by Marsgrim

How would it work with cloakers??

CLoaker infiltrates a base, kills a defender fomr a good camping spot over a few doorways for example. Dead guy on voice comm "Yeah he's in the corner by the crate".

Cloaker has to ove to a less optimal position.

In short, kill cam is goodfor FPS deathmatch but notfor any objective based game with bases to defend/attack.

excellent point.

-1 killcam

[Lord Cosine]

So here is a question.

What are all the possible benefits of the various types of death cams. And how could they be redesigned to fit within a tactical mmofps while still maintaining their positive traits.

For instance a camera that shows players the dude who killed them may be helpful to new players, as it would shed some light on the particulars surrounding their death and give them some insight into player tactics and positioning, however it gives away cloaker/sniper positioning and seems to be frowned upon by a lot of hardcore players. Is there a way to rework that kill camera so it gives away less tactical information while still helping new players learn how to play.

Perhaps these benefits could be worked into some other feature to leave the ps1 death cam intact?

[Mirror]

I honestly dont think the game needs it. I'd prefer to be paying attention and waiting on a rez rather than watching how I died.

[Vancha]

Originally Posted by Lord Cosine

What are all the possible benefits of the various types of death cams. And how could they be redesigned to fit within a tactical mmofps while still maintaining their positive traits.

As I've said, what if you could choose to save a TF2-esque replay upon death? Simply putting a delay between someone dying and being able to see what happened would solve everyone's problems with this I think.

[Figment]

@Lord Cosine: see my post at the top of page 3 for some examples.

[Lord Cosine]

Yeah that was a great reference I probably should have sited your death cam names in my example.

[Lord Cosine]

Originally Posted by Vancha

As I've said, what if you could choose to save a TF2-esque replay upon death? Simply putting a delay between someone dying and being able to see what happened would solve everyone's problems with this I think.

That could work, I'm curious though, what would the length of the delay be? What would the player do during that delay? Would the camera show the player dying or his enemy killing him?

Also I don't think I've ever seen an mmo implement replays. Sounds like that could be pretty difficult seeing as it would need to keep track of quite a few more players and bullets than CoD.

[Vancha]

Originally Posted by Lord Cosine

That could work, I'm curious though, what would the length of the delay be? What would the player do during that delay? Would the camera show the player dying or his enemy killing him?

Also I don't think I've ever seen an mmo implement replays. Sounds like that could be pretty difficult seeing as it would need to keep track of quite a few more players and bullets than CoD.

I'm afraid I don't know how those replays operate. I don't know if they're client-side or server-side. All I know is that they record the placements rather than the image.

By "delay", I mean having to access replays from the Planetside/replays directory, or logging out and going to a replay section from the main menu.

[Raymac]

Originally Posted by Marsgrim

How would it work with cloakers??

Cloaker infiltrates a base, kills a defender from a good camping spot covering a few doorways for example. Dead guy on voice comm "Yeah he's in the corner by the crate".

Cloaker has to move to a less optimal position,or if darklight is in the game he's found in seconds.

In short, kill cam is good for FPS deathmatch but not for any objective based game with bases to defend/attack.

I'll disagree with you and Acosmo.

Cloakers have to move anyways. They either need to get right up on you to kill you, or take a bunch of shots from relatively short range to kill you. If a cloaker is anywhere near where he was when he killed me (and they kill me alot), then I find him easily with darklight and exact my revenge. This is in PS1 mind you.

Even without kill cams in the game, a cloaker still needs to move so your point is completely moot.

[acosmo]

there are a lot of reasons for and against killcam, but the only one of them that rings true for me is kill-cam's ability to detect hackers (as arclegger said). this should only be an issue if SOE is expecting players to be responsible for recording and reporting hackers (which we will have an excess of with PS2 being F2P)