SmedBlog (last year): NPC Enemies and Armies

[Buggsy]

*shrugs*

[Blackwolf]

Originally Posted by Sledgecrushr

After reading everyones posts, I have to say my vote is for wildlife only. Npc armies and even npc invasion probably wouldnt be done well enough to warrant the effort to deviate from PS2's core gameplay. Killing bots in a pvp game wouldnt be that fun for me.

I have to agree with this.

While I suspect that balancing a pure PvP game to include PvE in it as well would be infinitely easier then balancing a PvE game to include PvP in it as an addition. I think that PS2 should just focus on making the PvP as fun as possible, leave the PvE out of it completely.

Fauna, cool. Harvesters? If you want them in the game you should have started work 12 months ago. Adding a half-assed harvest system into the game to create something new and unique for bases on some of the continents won't be a popular choice.

As for the raids. Come on people, if it was an event that happened on one continent at a time once every 2 months would you REALLY not play PS2? Some people might like the "defeat the waves" game once in awhile as a break from the every day humdrum. I know I could appreciate it. I'm not participating if it was a giant monster that we had to team up to fight. For an FPS game that sounds not at all fun.

[OMGitsRyGy]

I would just like to add that I am perfectly OK with NPC aliens as long as they are limited to the arachnids from Starship Troopers and they only attack that one stronghold. Because the only thing that could make Planetside 2 better is if it was also Starship Troopers

[FuzzyandBlue]

For everyone getting up in arms about Smed's Hero comment, you may not want feel like a hero while playing the game. Can any of you say that you don't want to feel like Badass?

I see many people saying no to NPCs. The most common reason is that it doesn't fit into planetside. Could be great in another game but not in my Planetside. My first reaction is, who are you to say what fits in PS2? Many of us haven't even played the game. On top of that, not a single person in this community has yet to put a single penny towards PS2. Now you can say that you subbed to PS1 all these years, and that's why this game is being made. Really? No this game is being made because SOE thinks that they can make money from this game. No company is going to make a multi-million dollar investment because 5000 people play their game 9 years after its release.

My second thought is that PS1 was practically dead at launch. I'm not talking in playerbase(although it never did get to a very impressive number). The game lost most of its support from SOE right around release.(correct me if I'm wrong.) If that game had been actively supported for 5-6 years who know what it would be like today. So its hard for us to say what Planetside is, because as far as I can tell Planetside was never finished. In 9 years it had 5 major content updates, and based on what I've heard each one was hated for its own reasons. Who know NPCs could have been added to the game.

My third thought is related to current and future competition. Do you think Planetside 2 has slipped under the radar of every other publisher and developer out there? No, they are watching PS2 closely. They want to see where it succeeds and where it fails. Who knows what projects will come out in the next few years. The only thing, on the market, that even kind of competes with PS2 is Firefall. They fill different roles right now, but there is nothing stopping Firefall from adding larger objective based PVP battles in the future, so long as the engine allows for it.

The last thing I will say is that it all comes down to proper implementation. I don't want NPCs affecting the core game at all. I don't like the invasion idea, I don't like the animal idea. and I think player controlled AI units conflict with the mission system. But i wouldn't mind a continent or two that are dedicated to either a hybrid PVE/PVP or a pure PVE experience. I wouldn't mind have a 4th NPC faction that is limited to its own instanced area. It wouldn't be for everyone. Some might like it others might not. As a few people have said this is an MMO first. MMOs thrive off of variety. The more variety you offer the more players you will draw. More players means more money. Maybe some people don't want to play PVP 24/7, if SOE could cater to them without affecting the core game what does it matter?

On the side, I'm surprised at the number of people that are opposed to NPCs that actually do something, but would be okay with pointless animals wandering around. If something in a game serves no purpose why add it in?

TL;DR Don't bother posting TL;DR below this post no cares if you're to lazy to read a longer post.

[exLupo]

Originally Posted by FuzzyandBlue

The last thing I will say is that it all comes down to proper implementation.

And it's too late for that. Unless they've been keeping a tight lid on this the whole time and actually have had it as part of the plan since before code, it's going to be a radical new mechanic tacked on too late in development.

In addition to that, they are leveraging the spirit of PS1 for this new project. The game's baggage, for good or ill, includes the core concept of a player controlled war where your targets are just as smart and unpredictable as you. NPCs are unwelcome by many in this thread because they want PS2 to be an evolution of PS1, not a re-imagining. Most of the design changes from 1 to 2 have been refinements, choices given birth by a decade of FPS evolution.

Now, I'm not saying NPC integration has gone poorly for action games. Far from it. Look at both the success of DotA styled MOBAs and the new TF2 horde mode. Hell, look at horde mode on its own. It's -extremely- popular regardless of console or PC audience. NPCs in multi-player action games aren't unwelcome. I can see those dollar signs as easy motivators for Smedco.

That being said, people who loved PS1 despite its failures would rather their targets stay the meaty and thinking variety.

Smedco may also be looking at EVE for a hybrid PvP/E world but the mobs there, for the PvP focused audience, are there purely to crush for cash to fund PvP ventures. The down-side of that comparison is that the NPCs are seen purely as a source for money, not actual engaging content. It's filler. Or look at Global Agenda. It is also a PvP/E hybrid from inception and its PvE content (open worldish or mission) are there to cater to people who don't want to fight (at the time or at all). PS1 is a PvP game and these are two examples of PvP/E hybrids where the NPCs have little-to-no actual interaction with the PvP portion of the game, no good or bad. And then there's Firefall, of which none of us can really speak. All three are hybrid games with NPCs in from an early stage if not concept. Firefall showcases integration, GA segregation and EVE filler.

For those in favor of NPCs, what facet is PS2 missing that it needs NPCs to fill? Is what you know of PS2 not good enough without them?

[RoninOni]

Originally Posted by FuzzyandBlue

For everyone getting up in arms about Smed's Hero comment, you may not want feel like a hero while playing the game. Can any of you say that you don't want to feel like Badass?

I see many people saying no to NPCs. The most common reason is that it doesn't fit into planetside. Could be great in another game but not in my Planetside. My first reaction is, who are you to say what fits in PS2? Many of us haven't even played the game. On top of that, not a single person in this community has yet to put a single penny towards PS2. Now you can say that you subbed to PS1 all these years, and that's why this game is being made. Really? No this game is being made because SOE thinks that they can make money from this game. No company is going to make a multi-million dollar investment because 5000 people play their game 9 years after its release.

My second thought is that PS1 was practically dead at launch. I'm not talking in playerbase(although it never did get to a very impressive number). The game lost most of its support from SOE right around release.(correct me if I'm wrong.) If that game had been actively supported for 5-6 years who know what it would be like today. So its hard for us to say what Planetside is, because as far as I can tell Planetside was never finished. In 9 years it had 5 major content updates, and based on what I've heard each one was hated for its own reasons. Who know NPCs could have been added to the game.

My third thought is related to current and future competition. Do you think Planetside 2 has slipped under the radar of every other publisher and developer out there? No, they are watching PS2 closely. They want to see where it succeeds and where it fails. Who knows what projects will come out in the next few years. The only thing, on the market, that even kind of competes with PS2 is Firefall. They fill different roles right now, but there is nothing stopping Firefall from adding larger objective based PVP battles in the future, so long as the engine allows for it.

The last thing I will say is that it all comes down to proper implementation. I don't want NPCs affecting the core game at all. I don't like the invasion idea, I don't like the animal idea. and I think player controlled AI units conflict with the mission system. But i wouldn't mind a continent or two that are dedicated to either a hybrid PVE/PVP or a pure PVE experience. I wouldn't mind have a 4th NPC faction that is limited to its own instanced area. It wouldn't be for everyone. Some might like it others might not. As a few people have said this is an MMO first. MMOs thrive off of variety. The more variety you offer the more players you will draw. More players means more money. Maybe some people don't want to play PVP 24/7, if SOE could cater to them without affecting the core game what does it matter?

On the side, I'm surprised at the number of people that are opposed to NPCs that actually do something, but would be okay with pointless animals wandering around. If something in a game serves no purpose why add it in?

TL;DR Don't bother posting TL;DR below this post no cares if you're to lazy to read a longer post.

#1: I payed $20 just to get into the beta 2 weeks earlier than I already was. and IDGAF if that doesn't make sense, I'm impatient and can afford it and at least it goes to SOE (and I think they know why when they count the numbers lmao)

#2: Planetside even still is being touted and promoted for the fact that as you explore the world, all those combat units are ACTUAL PLAYERS. NPC armies would ruin that.

#3: There are other games designed around coop PvE focus. Borderlands 2 and Firefall, for me, jump to the top of the list of upcomming PvE shooters. And no matter how hard SOE tries, they won't beat them in the PvE department... however if they try they COULD ruin the #1 thing that makes Planetside so addictive.



Understand this, while yes, I will leave Auraxis from time to time to go play some laid back PvE, the time I spend ON Auraxis precisely because of it's PvP will FAR outweight my time away. And the money I spend will reflect that.

If they spoil that experience... the time, and money, I spend on Planetside 2 WILL without a doubt, reduce significantly.

[VikingKong]

Originally Posted by alexdxvi

To be honest the NPC armies sounds awful. I don't know why they thought of adding such a thing.

[Blackwolf]

Originally Posted by FuzzyandBlue

Can any of you say that you don't want to feel like Badass?

There's only 2 times where I feel like a badass. Slaying dragons in Skyrim, and PvP. Neither of those times involve PvE in an MMO setting.

Skyrim is a game designed from the beginning around a single player. What Smed wants to do, is try to warp a multiplayer game so that a single player is the center of all the action (or at least so that every single player that plays the game feels like the center of the action). This doesn't work in MMOs. Everyone has tried it and everyone has failed miserably. The most effort and biggest in your face failure is ToR, which might as well have been made a single player game.

Planetside was always one of those games that never tried making everyone the center of the action. That, to me, is what set's it apart from other games. It isn't JUST that it's pure pvp. It's that you are an individual in an army. You're part of something bigger then yourself and you fight side by side with others even if you aren't in a squad.

Feeling like a badass is something I want to earn. It's not something I want handed to me. "Here shoot the idiot NPC! That will help you feel better!" no it doesn't.

[dzuari]

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/WWaLxFIVX1s" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


with that said, the only way i could really see it working is a random break from the routine every couple of months or maybe even a 1 time thing, a special event. But, the only way it would work is if it gave all factions a common enemy. They would have to be so powerful that all the factions would have no other choice than to set aside their battles to beat the npc army. i still think its a bad idea though.

[MaxDamage]

Originally Posted by FuzzyandBlue

My second thought is that PS1 was practically dead at launch. I'm not talking in playerbase(although it never did get to a very impressive number). The game lost most of its support from SOE right around release.(correct me if I'm wrong.)

Dead? I was there. It was far from 'dead'.
Spending ages in a warpgate waiting for the queues to continent to expire because they were full is not dead.

I have found support for Planetside and development very intelligent from SOE apart from perhaps the caverns which I never liked, but the introduction of achievements/unlocks, new weapons, new vehicles, new vehicle variants, more advanced hacking and engineering abilities and deployables; evolution of the gameplay itself with capitol bases, LLUs, modification of gameplay based on user feedback and practicality..

I don't see any evidence that supports your version of events at all.

[AnamNantom]

I still think that programmable AI would be fun in Planetside. Maybe even allow infiltrators to program AI viruses that traverse the data lines between the bases of Auraxis, and firewalls to impede them.

You have your "hardware" war going on, as well as the "software" war.

[OCNSethy]

I would like to see the NPC Invasion played out on the test server first but Im kinda 'meh' around an army of NPCs

[Selerox]

Originally Posted by Blackwolf

Uncertain about NPC armies. I think the players shouldn't be substituted for NPCs when going against other players.

NPC enemy invasion might be a cool treat or event at some points, but not on a regular basis.

+1

NPC invasion as a one-off mega event only.

[basti]

Just to repeat myself once again:

Not gonna happen. The day NPCs walk auraxis is the day Players leave it.

[MrMak]

Id be for an Alien ivasion on a specific continent (so that those who REALY dont want to dont have to deal with it) once or twice a month (with some sort of warning a few days prior on the given server) and perhaps a larger Auraxis wide one on special ocasions.

As for NPC armies...no .....just......no. Some simple drones defending bases to deter ghost capers yes. But actual armies doing the fighting for us? NO.