Planetside 2 and the Playstation 4

[kaffis]

Originally Posted by Tatwi

That's the major reason why I'd like the industry to adopt a unified gaming platform. The platform could add more processing units, allowing upgrades to perform better without changing any of the fundamental architecture. So rather than having an XBox, Playstation, and Wii you'd have the universal machine that all titles work on and Sony/Microsoft/Nintendo/Sega/etc would make games and peripherals to set themselves apart. There really isn't a technological reason why a system like this wouldn't be possible.

That would be a fantastic way to stagnate the industry.

You've created a system in which new features don't happen, and all you ever get is scaleability. Go back in time and propose this in 1993, and then come back in your time machine to the present to enjoy your Garaud shaded graphics with models that have over 9 quintillion polygons! and tell me how much more awesome that is than bump mapping, pixel shading, and physics-accelerated particle effects. Oh. And textures.

The alternative is to do what consoles do, and force obsolescence on old hardware every 3-5 years. That goes over so well on $400 consoles as it is, how enthusiastically do you think PC gamers who sink $2k+ into their rigs would support that?

If you don't do that, then you're stuck supporting backwards compatibility, and now, welcome to the modern PC hardware environment.

Honestly, it's not *that* bad. There are two major hardware vendors, who have an architecture cycle of around 36 months (that's new architecture every 36 months, with a mid-cycle clock bump/process advance to give our familiar 18-month "generations" of video card), and each runs on the same API that gets expanded as we incorporate and standardize new features. It's not like the mid-90's, when you had half a dozen manufacturers putting out cards with proprietary APIs (even if some of them were outstandingly awesome, like Glide).

[BorisBlade]

Originally Posted by kaffis

That would be a fantastic way to stagnate the industry.

You've created a system in which new features don't happen, and all you ever get is scaleability. Go back in time and propose this in 1993, and then come back in your time machine to the present to enjoy your Garaud shaded graphics with models that have over 9 quintillion polygons! and tell me how much more awesome that is than bump mapping, pixel shading, and physics-accelerated particle effects. Oh. And textures.

The alternative is to do what consoles do, and force obsolescence on old hardware every 3-5 years. That goes over so well on $400 consoles as it is, how enthusiastically do you think PC gamers who sink $2k+ into their rigs would support that?

If you don't do that, then you're stuck supporting backwards compatibility, and now, welcome to the modern PC hardware environment.

Honestly, it's not *that* bad. There are two major hardware vendors, who have an architecture cycle of around 36 months (that's new architecture every 36 months, with a mid-cycle clock bump/process advance to give our familiar 18-month "generations" of video card), and each runs on the same API that gets expanded as we incorporate and standardize new features. It's not like the mid-90's, when you had half a dozen manufacturers putting out cards with proprietary APIs (even if some of them were outstandingly awesome, like Glide).

I think he means he wishes it were more like PC's. You get to pick your hardware, when you update said hardware, what controls you want, and what method you use to get games, graphics card brands, etc etc etc...its all your choice.

With consoles, you are their bitch. They tell you when you get to upgrade, dont like their zillion year old graphics and want to upgrade? tough shit. They tell you what you will use for controls, dont like that wii mote or that 20 year old tech controller? tough shit. They get to pick whats exclusive to what console and exactly how you will get that product, dont like it? tough shit. I can think of many console games i wont play because of the outdated graphics that are far better on my pc, or games such as Bioshock that i cant play on consoles because of the crap controls (button/stick layouts that you cant even customize, or other FPS's i wont play on cosoles because they wont let me use the control setup i want (mouse/kb), and the list goes on and on. And dont get me started on their nazi controls on their online services that are just an obnoxious money grab and control set up. I want my freedom, you can keep your consoles.

And yeah i pay more for my pc, although you dont need to spend 2k even to have 98% top of the line, if you do you prob overpaid. But for one i have 100x the processing power of those now ancient consoles, and I can do a zillion times more on top of that. Its not just a game system.

You dont need full backwards compatibility. The pc has limits, OS's, DirectX versions, hardware reqs etc. Consoles nowadays all run on PC graphic cards anyway and the new xbox will be DX11, the fact is we are ultimately gonna get to a point where consoles are just like PC's but with a more streamlined OS. I can easily see a windows 9 or 10, maybe even a special version of it thats designed for one step game installs, streamlined UI etc. You buy and customize it like you want for your own pricepoint, with even some prefabbed set up models of various price ranges for the non techies. Let the console manufacturers do games or accessories, keep it open tho. Bottom line is let us make our own decisions. Dont try to control me, limit me, and tell me what im goin to do like you own me, and then brainwash me into thinkin its a good idea, we have enough companies named Apple.

[kaffis]

I think perhaps you misread that. If you look back to the post Tatwi is replying to, you'll see that the post I quoted is in response to a person with a programmer friend who dislikes having to ensure code works on all the various hardware permutations that a PC enables, and thus ONLY works on consoles.

[Firefly]

http://www.t3.com/news/microsoft-pc-...-gamers?=47435

There endeth the lesson.

[Tatwi]

Absolutely, if it wasn't for nVidia and ATi we'd all still be using PowerVR graphics engines on our PCs rather that our smart phones. Pressure to innovate has indeed caused innovation to occur.

However, hardware is at a point where realistically even folks like John Carmack admit that programmers aren't able to make use of all the bells and whistles of the current generation of consoles. So, if all the companies agreed to make make one super-console standard, along the lines of things like the 802.11 networking standards, it would allow programmers perhaps an entire decade to focus on making absolutely fantastic games that work on this standard.

The concept is actually the same one as Google's Andriod, which has proven to be quite popular.

While each company would sell consoles that have different bells and whistles, fundamentally all games created for them would be able to be made and optimized in exactly the same way on the programming level. Kind of like building a house of bricks rather than building a house of random stuff you found on a beach.

The pressure to innovate would come from expanding the feature set of the unified platform rather than taking a "my new thing is better than yours and better than my old thing" approach. Once there are enough features that are desirable, yet incompatible with the current standard, a new standard would be drafted and ratified. Hopefully it wouldn't take as long to agree upon as 802.11N did, but that's a good example of the process that I am thinking about.

In the end, it would be good for gamers and programmers, because it would be so much easier to build upon previous successes when the hardware and engines would not require fundamental changes after completing each project.

[Zulthus]

I personally wouldn't want a PS3/PS4 version of Planetside 2 as it would take away development time for the PC. Even if it did end up happening though, I guess I wouldn't mind because I'd get much more kills/BEP from the console noobs.

[kaffis]

Tatwi, I wouldn't be so quick to hold Android up as an example to emulate (and I say this as a 2-year Android user, not an iOS internet fanboy). There's a growing problem with fragmentation in the Android market. Apps that only work on some phones, etc., despite being "unified" under the same version of Android.

I think, instead, enlisting feedback and input from engineers at AMD and nVidia, as well as from programmers, to create, improve, and evolve DirectX standards is the more stable way forward, balancing innovation with reasonable levels of backwards compatibility and feature standardization.

In other words, DirectX already provides the unified platform you seem to be seeking.

[Tatwi]

Originally Posted by kaffis

Tatwi, I wouldn't be so quick to hold Android up as an example to emulate (and I say this as a 2-year Android user, not an iOS internet fanboy). There's a growing problem with fragmentation in the Android market. Apps that only work on some phones, etc., despite being "unified" under the same version of Android.

I think, instead, enlisting feedback and input from engineers at AMD and nVidia, as well as from programmers, to create, improve, and evolve DirectX standards is the more stable way forward, balancing innovation with reasonable levels of backwards compatibility and feature standardization.

In other words, DirectX already provides the unified platform you seem to be seeking.

But then there are things that fall outside of that standard, such as anti aliasing, which are handled in such significantly different manners by nvida and amd/ati that their use can break games rather than enhance them. FSAA is something I loathe playing a game without, but when it comes to playing Free Realms with my kids, it must be off, else the water, particle effects, and player/npcnames/icons disappear. Adaptive AA must be ON for World of Warcraft, else many textures do not display properly on ATi/AMD video cards, while Adaptive AA must be OFF in EQII for the same reason on the same video cards - yet nvidia cards do not display the issue at all.

With a unified, all encompassing standard these sorts of issues would not occur.

I think wireless networking hardware is a better example of what I am after than Andriod or Directx.

[kaffis]

See, when you get down to FSAA, now you're talking issues relating to different *hardware architecture implementations* of the same APIs. That's not a programming hurdle, that's simply a performance variation between the designs of the hardware.

If you were to standardize architecture, you very much WOULD stagnate the industry, as I originally alluded to.

[Tatwi]

Originally Posted by kaffis

If you were to standardize architecture, you very much WOULD stagnate the industry, as I originally alluded to.

I am aware of that perspective, but the flip side is that consumers and developers are provided with the benefits that come from stability. It's really no different that the current console model, apart from the merging of 3 different designs into one. PCs would still be their own industry.

[basti]

PS2 on PS3/4? Uhm, who knows? It wont be on the PS3 until forgelight is really powered by Rainbows and Unicorns, because the PS3 hit its limit.

As for the console discussion: What consoles really is the option of different input and output ways. Give me the option to plug my console to my PC, allowing me to play games on the console with Mouse and Keyboard, using my PCs monitor. Give me that while keeping the general idea of consoles = always same hardware/software = easy and strong optimizing for games, and you propably won most of the PC gamers.
But thats propably not going to happen. Microsofts tests of Cross platform gaming have showed that the issue is not PC vs console, but Mouse/KB vs controller. And if i could play with mouse/KB against controller players, i would win, always. Would force them to also buy mouse/KB to be able to be on the same level, and every casual console gamer would throw rocks at you for that. :/

[Infektion]

I just find it funny to sit infront of a 52 inch TV with a keyboard and mouse... ohhhh the sweet free kills I'll have. I'm all up for handicapping them. too big of a display and it's too much to keep sight of, disadvantage. Keyboard and mousing requires a proper comfortable setup, while in an aggressive posture. So, i'm curious to how this is going to play out and how console players will adapt to it. Either way, if they do merge PC and console players into a single server(s) then i'll still be raping face via my PC, maniacally laughing while drool drips from my lower lip. Just like my avy, except not banging my display.

[SKYeXile]

Originally Posted by Tatwi

SOE should buy Jumpgate Evolution (and all associated IP) then rework the "lore" aspect of it make fit Planetside.

lol they dont need to change much, they're essentially the same anyway.

[Clown Phoenix]

Am I the only one who thinks that the comment "and maybe not just the ps3" leaves it open for the xbox 360 as well? Everyone seems so focused on the ps3 since it's SOE, but adding support for the 360 if they are already supporting the ps3 makes good business sense, although people on consoles would be slaughtered by PC users.

[Zulthus]

What I think people are forgetting is that current consoles will not be able to handle it. They tried 1/10th of the scale with MAG and all it happened to be was a massive, boring lagfest.