Leaning in Planetside.

[Aesir]

How about a different approach, since we don't have 3rd person anymore, why not add it in form of a stance, were you can't shoot but move, and you are locked in it for 0,5-1,5 sec before you can switch back to ego perspective.

It would allow you to look around a corner, it would make leaning somewhat obsolete, provide the info of what is around you, maybe add a "looking-around"-animation that every one sees you are in third person.

And it would make you vulnerable for a short period of time, so it has pro's and drawbacks to balance it out.

About the prone, I don't want prone directly in the game, maybe for snipers and stationary weapon modes on some heavier stuff. Ever tried lay down in armor? I know how it is to run around in 35kg's of metal armor, you don't want to get prone in that.

[Blackwolf]

Originally Posted by Aesir

How about a different approach, since we don't have 3rd person anymore, why not add it in form of a stance, were you can't shoot but move, and you are locked in it for 0,5-1,5 sec before you can switch back to ego perspective.

It would allow you to look around a corner, it would make leaning somewhat obsolete, provide the info of what is around you, maybe add a "looking-around"-animation that every one sees you are in third person.

And it would make you vulnerable for a short period of time, so it has pro's and drawbacks to balance it out.

About the prone, I don't want prone directly in the game, maybe for snipers and stationary weapon modes on some heavier stuff. Ever tried lay down in armor? I know how it is to run around in 35kg's of metal armor, you don't want to get prone in that.

I had an idea of using 3rd person as a very close up image of your face and a bit around either side of you. If used right it could be a good way to quickly glance over your shoulder and possibly around a corner. The downside to this (and why I didn't add it to this poll) is that the avatar itself wouldn't move and therefore couldn't be detected or shot.

I still firmly stand against any sort of 3rd person mode, locked or not. There is just no point for it while lean has serious consequences to it and can be detected and countered.

[MrKWalmsley]

Originally Posted by Bags

While we're at it let's add ... a multi jump system, and a ceiling climbing system too.

Those are not realistic or simple functions of the human body, and things that are used by soldiers, leaning around corners so you are not fully exposed is a realistic function. That's the difference. So adding leaning does not lead to ceiling climbing. Slippery slope fallacy anyone?

[Reborn]

leaning usually allows ur gun to glitch through walls and slows down gameplay..so Im against it Id rather have a more fast paced game

[Crator]

PSU has a no lean no prone policy... So, just going to stay quite about this....

[Blackwolf]

Originally Posted by Reborn

leaning usually allows ur gun to glitch through walls and slows down gameplay..so Im against it Id rather have a more fast paced game

That would be one of my biggest fears about implementing it. Using a cover system that the game itself isn't built around is tricky, and adding it later would complicate things even more.

I already know the odds of seeing it put into PS2 are microscopic. I just honestly think it would have been a huge improvement to PS1's game play.

[Landtank]

I vote yes to leaning, I gave a lot of good reasons in the other thread.

It's something that I would really like to see, but I won't cry if it isn't in the game.

I don't like the idea of having to throw my whole body in front of a firefight to take a few shots. I didn't like it in Planetside, and I would rather not have to in PS2.

[ArbitraryDemise]

I vote yes to leaning, after the first F.E.A.R. I always found myself disappointed that more games did not implement a lean function.

[Aesir]

Originally Posted by Blackwolf

I had an idea of using 3rd person as a very close up image of your face and a bit around either side of you. If used right it could be a good way to quickly glance over your shoulder and possibly around a corner. The downside to this (and why I didn't add it to this poll) is that the avatar itself wouldn't move and therefore couldn't be detected or shot.

I still firmly stand against any sort of 3rd person mode, locked or not. There is just no point for it while lean has serious consequences to it and can be detected and countered.

I see your point why you are against 3rd person, but leaning/prone, those are major bonis for a defending force, it offers less bonis for a force that actually want's to capture a point.

The defender mainly camp's it out near cover, give him leaning or prone and he can dig in better, while the 3rd person stance concept also gives bonis for an attacker, to peek out defenses, it was a common tactic in PS1 to use 3rd person in hallways and stairs.

I understand the reasons behind it not being in PS2, since it only has advantages in the form it was in PS1, so why not add drawbacks to it's use.

It's just an idea, I will not start playing PS2 just because they add any of that stuff, it's just my personal opinion.

[Poser]

Originally Posted by Blackwolf

Dunno. I just thought it was unfair of Basti to not give the lean discussion a chance. Not many mentions of prone and some of the arguments actually made me regret my snap "no to tactics" choice.

Ironically, I don't even think he even read the thread. But tread carefully my friend, it would be unwise to get banned before the beta even starts.

[JimmyOmaha]

I could play it either way. If a lean was added I would use it a lot; especially since we're locked into first-person in infantry. Could also add some fun to indoor fights and entrances.

A resounding 'No' to a cover mechanic though. They always feel strange in FPS and never seem to add anything other than a few seconds to enter/exit cover, so often I don't use it anyways.

[Blackwolf]

Originally Posted by Aesir

I see your point why you are against 3rd person, but leaning/prone, those are major bonis for a defending force, it offers less bonis for a force that actually want's to capture a point.

The defender mainly camp's it out near cover, give him leaning or prone and he can dig in better, while the 3rd person stance concept also gives bonis for an attacker, to peek out defenses, it was a common tactic in PS1 to use 3rd person in hallways and stairs.

I understand the reasons behind it not being in PS2, since it only has advantages in the form it was in PS1, so why not add drawbacks to it's use.

It's just an idea, I will not start playing PS2 just because they add any of that stuff, it's just my personal opinion.

The difference between a 3rd person option and lean is that lean can be seen and shot. 3rd person can't. Any 3rd person implementation is exploitable for ambush and easy kills. It also is not effectively counter-able. And by counter-able I mean spotted and attacked. It also made boomering people impossible since they could just magically see around the doorway without risking death.

Lean on the other hand requires that you be visible when you look or glance or whatever. You can be seen and shot, and if you aren't shot before you duck back, grenades are inevitable. You don't hold a serious advantage of full information without the disadvantage of giving away your position. And the amount of information you receive is entirely based on what you could actually see in first person.

Prone has completely different uses then lean does. And does not fit in PS2. Lean has the potential to fit and no it doesn't give the defenders any more of an advantage then the attackers because attackers can use cover and lean too.

Originally Posted by Poser

Ironically, I don't even think he even read the thread. But tread carefully my friend, it would be unwise to get banned before the beta even starts.

I agree I don't think he read it either. I also don't think the poll options were easily understood, caught a lot of people misinterpreting them.

And it wouldn't matter to me if I was banned from PSU honestly. I'm a vet an apparently that means I'll be in beta whether or not an unaffiliated fansite likes me.

I also want to point out that a cover mechanic does add hindrances, but it reduces the number of key bindings needed for standard infantry combat (or it could), and gives advantages to people assaulting the cover point. Grenades and, hell, jet packs can easily get you over or around said cover and the person covering would have to exit cover in order to evade those counters. So the merits and flaws, IMO, weigh well against each other.

[Poser]

Originally Posted by Aesir

How about a different approach, since we don't have 3rd person anymore, why not add it in form of a stance, were you can't shoot but move, and you are locked in it for 0,5-1,5 sec before you can switch back to ego perspective.

It would allow you to look around a corner, it would make leaning somewhat obsolete, provide the info of what is around you, maybe add a "looking-around"-animation that every one sees you are in third person.

And it would make you vulnerable for a short period of time, so it has pro's and drawbacks to balance it out.

About the prone, I don't want prone directly in the game, maybe for snipers and stationary weapon modes on some heavier stuff. Ever tried lay down in armor? I know how it is to run around in 35kg's of metal armor, you don't want to get prone in that.

This.

[Synapse]

Imo, leaning could be quite good, and its silly to me that in a game where we have detailed bullet and flight physics we still can't bend at the hip.

[Sirisian]

I don't feel like lean needs a cover mechanic to be good. Simply allowing players to place themselves is fine with q and e or some other binding for leaning. (5 button mice work well).

I'm a huge fan of tactical play which is why I prefer giving players as many possible choices when dealing with a situation. If someone wants to lean out from a box rather than fully revealing themselves or standing up that should be their choice. I digress since I've already described my opinion in the prone thread when discussing balanced designed. (See signature).

Also if you bring up arguments against prone at least go read the prone thread that was locked and realize you were wrong before rehashing things.