On the fence

[PhoenixDog]

Originally Posted by Ratstomper

What's wrong with the story to PS2?

There's a backstory to PS2? I haven't seen it yet.

[Ratstomper]

Originally Posted by Gugabalog

I don't want it based on gameply, I want my choice based on lore, I'm jsut stuck on Progress vs Freedom.

If you're the type that has to wade through the philosophy first, then I would recommend the NC. The worst people can come up with is that they're "backed by corporations" and they automatically assume corporations are inherently evil, even though the lore shows no signs of that. Even if they WERE evil, they can't be nearly as evil or fanatically dangerous as the VS.

[Harasus]

Originally Posted by Ratstomper

I'll tell you what I tell everyone who is on the
Also, looking at the lore, I think the only faction that "wants to be left alone" are the NC. The TR and the VS are the aggressors.

I have to disagree, the NC want to change the government and make it "free". If there is anything in the lore stating that the NC just wish to be left alone, that they wish to build their own society, then link/quote it so I can see it. They are less of a secessionist movement, and more of a revolutionary one.

The VS seem like the ones who wish to be left alone mostly, in my opinion. Of course, they want all the nice tech/artifacts, and the Republic are not likely to just give away all our finds to some random guys who will not follow regulations, restrictions and law. Risky things like that should be handled, or atleast regulated, by the government. Not left in the hands of these techno-religious cultists.

[PhoenixDog]

Originally Posted by Gugabalog

I don't want it based on gameply, I want my choice based on lore, I'm jsut stuck on Progress vs Freedom.

Freedom without progress is stagnant. Progress however will eventually lead to freedom one way or another.

[Ratstomper]

Originally Posted by PhoenixDog

There's a backstory to PS2? I haven't seen it yet.

Yep, they rewrote the story and fleshed it out a lot. You can read the entries on the official PS2 site... look under the news page and go all the way to the back. The lore is given in bitesized chunks.

[PhoenixDog]

Originally Posted by Ratstomper

Yep, they rewrote the story and fleshed it out a lot. You can read the entries on the official PS2 site... look under the news page and go all the way to the back. The lore is given in bitesized chunks.

I'll definitely check it out. Thanks!

However...The only lore I need for this argument is...There is no permanent death on Auraxis. The only reason your pathetic human technology can keep fighting against us is BECAUSE of us. It was the Vanu tech that created rematrixing. It is Vanu tech that preserves eternal life.

[Ratstomper]

Originally Posted by Harasus

I have to disagree, the NC want to change the government and make it "free". If there is anything in the lore stating that the NC just wish to be left alone, that they wish to build their own society, then link/quote it so I can see it. They are less of a secessionist movement, and more of a revolutionary one.

The VS seem like the ones who wish to be left alone mostly, in my opinion. Of course, they want all the nice tech/artifacts, and the Republic are not likely to just give away all our finds to some random guys who will not follow regulations, restrictions and law. Risky things like that should be handled, or atleast regulated, by the government. Not left in the hands of these techno-religious cultists.

The whole point of the NC is to overthrow the martial law and draconian edicts that the TR have placed on ALL citizens of Auraxis. The NC believe in self-governence. While it doesn't explicitly state it, that ideology, by it's very nature, means they just want to be given their freedoms.

Originally Posted by PhoenixDog

Freedom without progress is stagnant. Progress however will eventually lead to freedom one way or another.

I wouldn't call that freedom, more like assimilation. Forcing everyone to "progress" is no path to freedom, it's completely against it.

[Gugabalog]

The thing is, molecular reconstruction constitutes death each time it is used, nothing more than a replica, not the same person. It is clone after clone, memory preserved.

[Ratstomper]

Originally Posted by PhoenixDog

I'll definitely check it out. Thanks!

However...The only lore I need for this argument is...There is no permanent death on Auraxis. The only reason your pathetic human technology can keep fighting against us is BECAUSE of us. It was the Vanu tech that created rematrixing. It is Vanu tech that preserves eternal life.

So, where are the Vanu now? The VS are diving headlong into things no one understands. If the Vanu were so great, why are they all gone? For all we know the VS are on the same path to oblivion they were. Freedom naturally creates progress, what the VS want isn't progress: It's blind belief and dangerous at that.

...your pathetic human technology...

My point exactly. At what point do the Vanu stop being human and start being alien?

[Harasus]

Originally Posted by Ratstomper

The whole point of the NC is to overthrow the martial law and draconian edicts that the TR have placed on ALL citizens of Auraxis.

The people voted FOR all of this, stability must be achieved before we can return to the old days, and the majority of the people agree with this.

Originally Posted by Ratstomper

So, where are the Vanu now? The VS are diving headlong into things no one understands. If the Vanu were so great, why are they all gone? For all we know the VS are on the same path to oblivion they were. Freedom naturally creates progress, what the VS want isn't progress: It's blind belief and dangerous at that.


My point exactly. At what point do the Vanu stop being human and start being alien?

I can, however, agree with this. The TR will restrict and regulate the research on alien technology. We will not try to jump headlong into things we do not know what it will lead to. The Vanu do not exist anymore, or atleast they are not here anymore, and there is a reason for that. Eternal life is not something we can just play around with, it could very well lead to more horror and destruction than good. This war is a great example of that.

[Ratstomper]

Originally Posted by Harasus

The people voted FOR all of this, stability must be achieved before we can return to the old days, and the majority of the people agree with this.

Actually, they didn't. The last democratically elected official was Connery. Since then, the current TR leadership killed connery and a metric ton of innocent civilians, for the sake of security (). Now there is fully a totalitarian military autocracy on Auraxis. Don't make the mistake of thinking the earth TR and the Auraxis TR are the same thing.

A society where people are coerced into doing what the government wants is not a democracy and is neither worth fighting for nor living under.

[PhoenixDog]

Originally Posted by Ratstomper

So, where are the Vanu now? The VS are diving headlong into things no one understands. If the Vanu were so great, why are they all gone? For all we know the VS are on the same path to oblivion they were. Freedom naturally creates progress, what the VS want isn't progress: It's blind belief and dangerous at that.

Every civilization comes and goes, no matter how great and prosperous they were. Extinction is an inevitability no matter how much you may know. At least we try and preserve what they knew. They were lightyears ahead of humanity in terms of technology. They knew much more than we ever could.

And even if it is blind belief...Your idea of freedom isn't just. No one can ever be free. Freedom leads to anarchy. You're just as blind as we are. If you had things your way, there would still be laws and limitations that limit the people's freedom. You'll just end up like the TR...The same beliefs you're fighting against. At least the VS accept that no one can ever be free,

[Ratstomper]

Originally Posted by Gugabalog

The thing is, molecular reconstruction constitutes death each time it is used, nothing more than a replica, not the same person. It is clone after clone, memory preserved.

They haven't touched on it in the new lore, really. The old lore made it sound like it was definitely more then just cloning. As if the people had becomes part of the nanite system of Auraxis itself and therefore couldn't die. for instance, in the PS1 lore, It only worked on people who used the warpgates. Non-human animals always stayed dead, regardless of using the warpgates.

[DevilzRightHand]

Hi guys - I really like this thread ( I am TR my self )
But i dont go into this discussion because i am not so active in the history.

But when reading this i ger rly interested in the lore from both ps1 and ps2.
ANy one know a good place on the net where there is alot of it? I tried "wiki" but nothing much came up?

Thx 4 help in advance.
Oh and join terran, why?

We are the most friendly faction 4 new comers
(my self love to make the new recruits feel at home on the battlefield)
We are the most bound together unit/faction
(we ALWAYS watch ouer friends backs and no one is rambo and we ALWAYS rez if some one of ouer fellow brothers is down on the ground needing help)

If you want freedom - If you want peace - Join Terran

[Pyreal]

The NC have inferior equipment. The VS have a kit with no rival.

Did you not see the Historical Recording recently released in which an NC drone's jump jet failed? It is most common.