Concerns about the F2p model

[Bags]

I heard LoL was P2W.

o wait

[Kail]

Originally Posted by SFJake

Any F2P model that isn't a 100% free besides cosmetic exists against the costumers and not for it.

It'll always be a joke, and paying for this is a disgrace. They ARE going to be nickel and dimming people with overpriced **** instead of just letting you pay an appropriate one-time fee to properly enjoy a game.

As long as people think this kind of shit is acceptable, gaming will be shit. For god's sakes, stop ruining every FPS in existence with F2P garbage. F2P IS ANTI-CONSUMER DAMNIT.

Let's pretend for a second that you actually will need to spend money for game-impacting features. Say, a continent that you need to buy access for, and a new class you need to unlock via the cash shop. Lets also pretend you spend a grand total of $60 to unlock it all.

How is that different than any expansion to any game you've ever bought? Besides of course it's not called an expansion. And that you only have to buy the features you care about.

[Gonefshn]

You can earn all the weapons through playing the game and not paying a cent.

But the main point not many of you are mentioning is the fact that the weapons your going to be buying with real money aren't any more powerful than the guns you start out with. The guns are all different for different situation but your never buying a gun that will flat out make another obsolete. You can easily kill players with the starting guns.

not P2W

[EisenKreutzer]

As long as none of the weapons you can buy for real money are flat out better than the default ones, then the game will never be pay to win. The developers have stated time and time again that they will avoid pay to win as hard as they can, and I tend to believe them.

Simply having the option to spend real money on a weapon does not automatically make the game pay to win.

[Hamma]

It becomes pay to win when either the threshold to earn it in game is to high, or weapons are offered for cash only. Or allowing you to buy cert points with SC.

It's not P2W, SOE hasn't done anything they wouldn't tell us they would do.

[Jaybonaut]

Sidegrades are p2w? Um, no.

[BoldarBlood]

Originally Posted by Gonefshn

You can earn all the weapons through playing the game and not paying a cent.

that doesnt matter. if you can buy gameplay relevant items with real cash, then it is pay2win. thats a standing definition. even in wikipedia.

you have to play a long time till even out your disadvantage, while buyers have all the stuff instantly. they are also not "sidegrades" like the devs are saying. having a max with 2x the same weapons for example is mandatory to use it in any field of activity. so the standard model of the max is useless in compare to a bought combination like 2x antiinf weapons. andere there are lots of these cases.

ps:

"Pay-to-win" is sometimes used as a derogatory term to refer to games where paying for in-game items can give the player an advantage over other players, particularly if the items cannot be obtained by free means.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microtransaction

every other "interpretation" is just marketing bullshit from the companies, who are trying to benefit from a reinterpretation of the term. pay2win allways was and is selling gameplay relevant items. the stupid phrase that "you can get every for free too" exists in nearly every pay2win game out there. but its designed the way that i will be extremly hard after a while to keep up and to get stuff, if you are not paying. its a trick for naive people who believe in marketing lies.

[Crator]

"Pay-to-win" is sometimes used as a derogatory term to refer to games where paying for in-game items can give the player an advantage over other players, particularly if the items cannot be obtained by free means.

derogatory: expressive of a low opinion

[BoldarBlood]

Originally Posted by Crator

derogatory: expressive of a low opinion

lol. never give up, never admit you are wrong! even if there is proof! thats the spirit!

[Crator]

Dude, this topic has been beatin' to death. We argued our asses off about if way before beta even started. Those that hated it and still consider it P2W have left out of anger or accepted it and keep watchful eyes on the shop to ensure there isn't anything that is considered P2W. Almost all PS vets know that a monthly payment model for a FPS game doesn't work well so we support the F2P model.

EDIT: I think it would even be fair (not considered P2W) if there were some weapons that had something about them that would be considered an upgrade instead of a side-grade, as long as that weapon is tied to Battle Rank.

[Phantomdestiny]

Originally Posted by BoldarBlood

that doesnt matter. if you can buy gameplay relevant items with real cash, then it is pay2win. thats a standing definition. even in wikipedia.

you have to play a long time till even out your disadvantage, while buyers have all the stuff instantly. they are also not "sidegrades" like the devs are saying. having a max with 2x the same weapons for example is mandatory to use it in any field of activity. so the standard model of the max is useless in compare to a bought combination like 2x antiinf weapons. andere there are lots of these cases.

ps:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microtransaction

every other "interpretation" is just marketing bullshit from the companies, who are trying to benefit from a reinterpretation of the term. pay2win allways was and is selling gameplay relevant items. the stupid phrase that "you can get every for free too" exists in nearly every pay2win game out there. but its designed the way that i will be extremly hard after a while to keep up and to get stuff, if you are not paying. its a trick for naive people who believe in marketing lies.

actually 2 AA weapons on a max is a side grade because it makes you more vulnerable to infantry than if you had 1 AA and 1 heavy cycler in the case of the TR but it makes you more effective against air units

[Ghoest9]

Originally Posted by Crator

Almost all PS vets know that a monthly payment model for a FPS game doesn't work well so we support the F2P model.

this

[Babyfark McGeez]

Hmmm, playing like half a year to unlock sidegrades or pay for them straight up and have an advantage over people without them (vehicle/aircraft performance/utility/defense sidegrades, aa max, ammo types, scopes, etc.).

It may be debatable, but it's atleast hovering over the grey line of "pay2win"...and tbh i see it more on the wrong side of that line.

"Cosmetics and boosters" only would definetely not give this slight bad taste in the mouth.

[Dagron]

That's a naive dream, cosmetics and boosters alone won't generate enough revenue to support a game that needs to maintain servers online.

You can view the fact that they are selling sidegrades as p2w or not, but you can't argue with the fact that by paying a little for every weapon you want, up to a total of $60 over the whole period you play the game, is the exact same thing as paying $60 just to access the game, with the bonus that you get a ton of "content" to play with you (by content i mean non-paying players).

The trick is to make the non-paying players have a fun experience too, and by not giving paying players powerful advantages that would frustrate the non-paying players, then there is a better chance everyone will still have fun (even if some have a little more fun than others).

[BoldarBlood]

Originally Posted by Phantomdestiny

actually 2 AA weapons on a max is a side grade because it makes you more vulnerable to infantry than if you had 1 AA and 1 heavy cycler in the case of the TR but it makes you more effective against air units

thats not a sidegrade. the mixed standard max is useless in every role. it gets killed by anti-infantery max and doesnt have enough firepower for AA support. you need to buy a second gun to even out your chances and thats pay 2 win.

Originally Posted by Crator

Almost all PS vets know that a monthly payment model for a FPS game doesn't work well so we support the F2P model.

i blame soe and not the model. when i quit ps1 it was because soe was too lazy to fix bugs and bring in new content. months went by till they introduced a bomber and a aa vehicle and then no new content came for ages because they worked on a pay-expension. let alone the bugs... how long did it take till they did something against the backdoor bug? 6 months? they just didnt earned my subscription. but i was willing to pay.

Originally Posted by Babyfark McGeez

"Cosmetics and boosters" only would definetely not give this slight bad taste in the mouth.

no, but LoL showed that you can offer other stuff without giving gameplay advantages.