A new metric for player skill. - Page 2

Electrofreak · 2013-01-13, 10:31 AM

Originally Posted by Aaron

Player skill can only be accurately recorded and recognized by other players in-game. A voting or honoring system should be in place. Since a player's skill is whatever is perceived as skill by other players, this can be a more accurate system.

For instance, let enemies choose to give you a vote on skill if they think you killed them skillfully. There could be a little button on your death cap screen. There could even be different types of votes for friendlies: teamwork votes, sportsmanship votes, MVP votes.

Of course, there would have to be a system in place that would prevent major exploiting or "vote padding". There should be limits on how often and how much you can vote; and how much you can vote on one particular player.

It would be nearly impossible for this not to devolve into a popularity contest. I like the idea of letting enemies vote, but still, the well-known players will get votes while the skilled but unrecognized players often won't.

Solkanarmy · 2013-01-13, 10:56 AM

Originally Posted by MaxDamage

Stats exist. These ones speak the truth and only the truth.

Some people can't handle the truth, that is their problem; not the stats.

This is very true - whilst some may not like the deaths stat, it can be useful for improving your own play, if you want to - for example, I've had over 200 deaths to my own faction, many of which were me being run over by vehicles... the price of being an engineer as main class, I suppose

I would love stats on everything, with emphasis on the one you chose from the list, and maybe a 'quicklist' that you can pick on the main stats page. Amount repaired would be awesome to see too ^_^

I'd also like to see medals for each individual weapon, instead of by vehicle - I know they're being awarded because I see them and have the certs to prove it, but there's no way to check how many more kills to the next one.

For a 'coverall' stat, I'd like to suggest average placement in battles, based on scoreboard. This would favour people who played objectives - I've been pretty high up on there without firing a shot in some battles where ammo is key - but should still allow the k/d ratio aficionados to do their thing as normal :>

I'm very proud that I've recently managed to bump my overall K/D up to 0.6 \o/

Bobby Shaftoe · 2013-01-13, 01:45 PM

Stats 'worth' is vastly inflated in this game, since there's not much else to it.

Also, what is this bizarre fixation with swapping around 'metrics' to make something else 'more important'. It doesn't change anything, you'll still get people farming kills and you'll get people chasing the new 'metric'.

Beerbeer · 2013-01-13, 01:58 PM

Stats can say a lot.

Are you a vehicle whore? Stats can tell.
Do you like to camp empty bases? Stats can tell.

The only stat that impress me are those people with a ton of bases defended. They probably will have a low K/D ratio, but they try, maybe too stubbornly so based on curent game dynamics, but you know what, these rare people are what makes fights interesting; they understand the 'spirit' of the game better than most people, even if they are vehicle fodder.

I think I've seen ONE person who posts here who fits that mold. Just one, lol. Is he not so bright considering the circumstances? Maybe. But give this guy a defendable base and watch out.

I won't say his name, but I think the person knows who I am referring to. Good job, at least you try no matter if it's not really meant to be tried. One thing is for sure, I don't try anymore.

typhaon · 2013-01-13, 02:38 PM

KDR is as good a metric as any - but it should be augmented by showing KDR and raw stats for # of kills by weapon/vehicle... also time spent in vehicle, etc..

There will always be ways of massaging the numbers - but details like that would give us a better idea of who is good at what.

BIGGByran · 2013-01-13, 05:16 PM

Here maybe a good stat to display people's roles properly.

Assault Stat = K/D
Support Stat = Generally support roles in healing/repairing. Don't know how to measure this.

That way, you can see if someone is more of an assaulter or supporter.
"Hey! JimBob there has a horrible Assault Stat, but damn he does awesome as a support role. GET IN MY BELLY! Err Tank! You repair me!"

Maybe repair-heal/death. how much you repair or heal before you die as the "support stat"? Just an idea.

MAXX, Tanks, Aircraft could care less about horrible k/d ratio so long as their "support stat" is good.

StumpyTheOzzie · 2013-01-13, 05:48 PM

Originally Posted by Bobby Shaftoe

Stats 'worth' is vastly inflated in this game, since there's not much else to it.

Also, what is this bizarre fixation with swapping around 'metrics' to make something else 'more important'. It doesn't change anything, you'll still get people farming kills and you'll get people chasing the new 'metric'.

Yes, indeed.

I don't understand the proliferation of these threads.If you have a fixation with ranking and stats and whatever, (Instead of actually playing the game) the solution is very simple. Track everything and release the information publicly.

Then make a really good datamining spreadsheet API [buzzword buzzword] so that people can track player skill based on whichever metric they want to be known for.

I, personally, do not want KDR tracked. I'd rather be known for revives/death (as a medic behind the front lines, this is my major strength)

A good friend of mine is a massive libwhore (and I'm a medium libwhore) so we should be able to compare ourselves based on the "Libwhore" tab of the API program.

With the magical world of statistics and actuarial studies, we can surely come up with 500 metrics for player skill.

Since this game is combined arms and there are many ways to skin a cat, how is it possible to get "One score to rate them all?"

BIGGByran · 2013-01-13, 06:14 PM

@StumpyTheOzzie

I agree, but there are people out there, and I'm sure there are a lot, that use K/D as their stat and it shouldn't be taken away.

I agree about the ability to show every stat in the game, but only make it to where people who want to see every stat.

Instead make it simple and show 2 stats. "Offensive" and "Defensive" or whatever name you want to call it. "Assault" "Support" etc etc.

Offensive/Assault = K/D
Defensive/Support = Repair-Heals-Revives/D

And if you want more, click here and show ever stat ever tracked in the game. But I think the simplified version would be enough to show what role you play in this game.

Ex.
Joe1
Assault = 7.098
Support = 0.076

This shows he plays more offensive chars vs support roles

Joe2
Assault = 0.078
Support = 10.898

This shows that he plays more support role and pretty dang good at it.

Joe3
Assault = 3.089
Support = 5.099

This show that he is pretty well rounded.

You are also right, and I'm sure a lot of people think this way except those who strictly go by K/D, there is no 1 stat to sum up what a player does.

StumpyTheOzzie · 2013-01-13, 06:46 PM

yes, i see, I understand.

What you do not see (or care about) is that I am saying that the game is not simple enough to have any "overall" stat.

The game is too big, with too many specialities to be able to pigeonhole people into 2 categories.

Besides, you can still "game" any system and stat pad. And the only people who will REALLY care about what their stats say will be stat padding, so who cares?

Where does libwhore fit into your support / assault matrix? (Assume equal time gunning and piloting)

Are you saying that libwhores are excellent at everything? Massive high engineering "Repair" score and low deaths = good support. KDR of 20+ means good "assault" score too.

When I'm footing it, I generally have a KDR of about 0.7 (which is average I think. You have to pay the liberator tax. If they have kdrs of 20+ that means 20 people have kdrs of less than 1) So by that rationale, I'm rubbish at assaulting. However, someone has to be first through the door and my outfit is quite well trained (although very small) so in a strategic sense, the outfit is a very good assaulting outfit. We are usually the siege breakers that allow the zerg to come in and mop up.

So my personal "assault" stats suffer greatly in order to make the NC win.

Is that fair? Where's the metric for that? Can I please have a measurement for "Guts, spirit, heart and soul" please?

By making KDR a "thing" I'm not going to play to win. I'm going to play to stat-pad.

This is why any "score" or unified number or KDR or anything is a bad thing and is best left ignored or at least buried.

If you HAVE to have stats, then at least have them all so I can say "Yes, you have the most headshots, but I have the most generators destroyed and capture points flipped. So while you were spawncamping, and killing people in a game with no tickets, counters or penalties for death and infinite lives, I was winning the game"

Chewy · 2013-01-13, 07:18 PM

Originally Posted by Beerbeer

Stats can say a lot.

Are you a vehicle whore? Stats can tell.
Do you like to camp empty bases? Stats can tell.

The only stat that impress me are those people with a ton of bases defended. They probably will have a low K/D ratio, but they try, maybe too stubbornly so based on curent game dynamics, but you know what, these rare people are what makes fights interesting; they understand the 'spirit' of the game better than most people, even if they are vehicle fodder.

I think I've seen ONE person who posts here who fits that mold. Just one, lol. Is he not so bright considering the circumstances? Maybe. But give this guy a defendable base and watch out.

I won't say his name, but I think the person knows who I am referring to. Good job, at least you try no matter if it's not really meant to be tried. One thing is for sure, I don't try anymore.

Is that a complement or an insult?

BIGGByran · 2013-01-13, 09:45 PM

@StumpyTheOzzie

I never said there should be an "overall" stat. I stated in my last post that there isn't 1 stat that can sum up a player.

It was just an idea, it doesn't have to have 2 categories, but it does need to be simple so people can see the kind of player you are instead of looking at your K/D.

Maybe we can change the system to:

Aircraft K/D then if you want to expand on that to ESF, Liberator, and Galaxy etc.
Vehicle K/D then if you want to expand on that to ES Tank, Lightning, Flash etc. (and still get more specific if you want down to K/D with specific guns but that just get a bit crazy for alot of people, but still available if you want)
Assault Inf K/D
Support Inf Revive-Heal-Repair/D

Hopefully this new matrix as you call it, fix the Libwhore you are talking about.

If you see people with 40 K/D with libs and he is the ONLY person with 40 K/D with libs, then he is either really good or cheating. You stated that 0.7 is average on foot. Well maybe 40 K/D is average on libs. There will be an average on all stats. Maybe 10 K/D on foot = 10000000 K/D on libs, but there will be an average and I don't know what that average is.

If K/D really means that much to you then maybe you shouldn't be carelessly charging in. To me, K/D is my own personal stat that I try to use to better myself. I try to improve it. Trying to improve my K/D doesn't mean that I spawn camp or never cap a point or never go to A and sit there, as I do that most to all of the time. I let other people spawn camp. I will spawn camp if 1. There is enough people on the points to capture the base 2. No one is watching the spawn room to prevent them from getting out to either spawn a sundy or capture a point. Spawn camp is boring, more excitement when you fight them in room, open fields, and whatever else.

This shouldn't hurt your "assault stats" as I am sure your not just carelessly charging in blind and shooting everywhere hoping to hit something. Being a siege breaker, I'm sure you know where to look, where to expect, and how to react to enemies better than most people. I understand sometimes it doesn't work out, but most of the time it does.

If you can show me a metric for "Guts, Spirit, Heart, and Soul" please let me know, I would love to see what mine looks like. Well actually you know what, there is a metric for that. I believe it is when you team members what to play with you, it won't be written down in paper, but it does show.

K/D only a few people care about it, and it doesn't have to be a bad thing. I use the K/D to improve myself. My K/D has been improving a lot lately and proud of it. I don't go flaunting it at people, I use it only to improve myself and just to see where I stand.

K/D and any kind of score is there for those who care. If you don't care then don't worry about it. I use to as an "improvement tool" for myself.

I completely agree with you on the "no penalties for death and infinite lives." I honestly thought about the idea of you only have 1 life per hex so that you are more cautious and careful, rather than just throwing away your life cause there is no penalty and you have infinite lives. I played and loved Rainbox Six when you spawn at a stage, if you die, thats it. You waited until the match is over with and then you start a new game. I never played COD or any of the "shot em up" games where it is based on how many kills you get, it was fun sure, but I liked it when you only have 1 life and there are 20 people all trying to kill each other to be the last man standing. Love that type of game. I wish they would implement that in this game but I don't think it would fit and it would be very hard if they did.

Maybe even a further to K/D on each class.

After typing all this, who cares, play the game and enjoy. Leave to anyone that really cares about K/D and points and ranking. I accept any rank they give and I will see where I stand. Other than that, I will enjoy the hell out of this game.

I been in and out and lost track of this reply. I hope it make sense lol sorry if it doesn't.

TL DR is fine by me.

Btw, how do people with 49570w58.00 kills to 0 deaths get that? How can they kill that many and not die?

StumpyTheOzzie · 2013-01-14, 08:24 PM