Feedback on SCUs for Higby

[OCNSethy]

As others have said, nothing wrong with the SCU mechanic now... nothing to fix. Why is Higby asking this?

[Mustakrakish]

GOOD

• Creates flow in the battle by giving both sides a clear objective to focus on.
• Protected by a shield generator. Defenders don't have to worry about it unless the shields go down first. This also gives flow to the battle.
• Not having to stand around babysitting an SCU or generator to keep the overload going enables small units to make a difference with hit-and-run tactics. Otherwise, a defending force can simply Zerg into the generator room and they will win every single time. Numerical superiority should be a significant advantage, but it shouldn't be the sole deciding factor in any engagement if it's supposed to be fun.
• Makes defenders actually have to work for it if they want to keep a facility.
• Promotes strategic thinking on the part of the attackers. Having a mechanic to stop defenders from spawning before the base has flipped--possibly even before the attackers have started adding capture tickets--means there is a hard-wired value to shock-and-awe tactics, rather than hoping it messes with your opponent's heads.

BAD

• Considering their importance to a facility, SCU rooms aren't very large. A lot of people from both sides rush there as soon as the shields go down, and it gets packed.
• It's insanely difficult to repair an SCU mid-battle, even if you get the shield generator back online. Currently, unless a squad leader is lucky enough to have a good number of their squadmates still alive and smart enough to push hard on the SCU room the moment the SCU goes offline, most of the time any effort to continue defending the facility completely futile.

I'd love it if the defenders were able to initiate some kind of temporary emergency lockdown mode on the SCU room. Ideally it could only be activated under certain conditions, would have a cooldown timer long enough to prevent the defenders from spamming it, and would only last for a brief window of time. The main idea is to buy a little bit of time for any defenders locked inside to repair it if they acted quickly, or keep the attackers locked out/trapped inside long enough for a response team from one of the satellite bases to get in a position to actually do something useful.

[MrMak]

The SCU in the Tach plant should probably be relocated somewhere else. Possibly wall up the middle floor of the tech plant, and put it there, with the SCU shield blocking the exit from the lift. A Teleporter leading to that area would be nice for the defenders, perhaps put it in that small building outside the former middle vehicle bay that is linked to the spawn with a tunnel.

Another option would be moving the SCU near that building (so that spawn camping is not a prerequisite to hacking it in thefirst place) Whlile the External gens would be moved to the (now walled off) mid floor and the roof of the main building.

Yet another option with the shield gens would be puting one in the mid floor and another where the SCU is now. With perhaps spliting them so that one closer to the spawn controlls the current vehicle bay shield and the internal wone controlls the former vehicle bay shield.

[EVILPIG]

I only have a few moments, so just tossing out a partial discussion I have had. When you hack a base, the first half should be clearing enemy data. At a halfway point, the base should become neutral. Then once the hack is complete, the CAP is complete, you load your empire's data into the base's network and the base becomes yours. Now, the time of CAP would need to be increased for this, but once the base neutralizes, the painfields and shields on the spawns DROP. I would add some more to the spawn room structures though.

[camycamera]

on the subject of hacking generators, i think it should be changed so that only INFILTRATORS can hack generators and SCU's. just sayin'

[lsoul]

Maybe i'm just not seeing it, but a notification on the map to let players know when a gen/scu is down at a base would help loads. This will give smaller outfits/squads a chance to repair them before the enemy zerg shows up and its already too late to do anything without a spawn.

[bpostal]

Originally Posted by lsoul

Maybe i'm just not seeing it, but a notification on the map to let players know when a gen/scu is down at a base would help loads. This will give smaller outfits/squads a chance to repair them before the enemy zerg shows up and its already too late to do anything without a spawn.

Yep, we need to be able to see the status of the gens, not just the SCU, on the map.

Also, we need gen rooms where we can do gen holds. One way in, one way out with plenty of cover. Putting them in something like where the crown's SCU used to be, but removing all windows and roof access would, IMO be ideal. Any team doing a hold can cover the stairs/doorways and fall back further into the building as needed.

As for the mechanic itself, I don't mind it in it's current iteration, they just need to be readily accessible by the defense without shelling from vehicles and if we could get them to link to the benefits provided by a base, that would be great.

[Stardouser]

He's looking at this too one dimensionally. Instead of worrying about halfway points, put in multiple SCUs depending on base size (5 for an amp station, 3 for the Crown, perhaps). And the effect would be cumulative and gradual - taking out one would bump up the respawn timer. This respawn timer would have to apply to sunderers too otherwise they would provide a way around SCUs.

And as I said in the other thread I made, having zero adjacent territory held should inflict a penalty on a defending force similar to losing one of your SCUs.

Perhaps a combination? At a 5 SCU base, 3 outer SCUs can always be destroyed, the 2 inner ones cannot except at the halfway point.

[bpostal]

Originally Posted by Stardouser

...Perhaps a combination? At a 5 SCU base, 3 outer SCUs can always be destroyed, the 2 inner ones cannot except at the halfway point.

I would think they'd have to be either centrally located (next door maybe?) or have a linear progression from one to another or we'll be stuck with the Amp station game of 'ring around the ohGodIwantToDiePleaseJustStop!'

[Crator]

Originally Posted by Mastachief

Personally i hate SCU's the enemy should have to fight their way into the spawns to drop the tubes, painfields and everything.

^ This! Thanks...

[Ruzy]

Originally Posted by camycamera

on the subject of hacking generators, i think it should be changed so that only INFILTRATORS can hack generators and SCU's. just sayin'

I agree with that. Inf is my favorite class, and I can never find a reason to play it.

[Wahooo]

Originally Posted by Stardouser

He's looking at this too one dimensionally. Instead of worrying about halfway points, put in multiple SCUs depending on base size (5 for an amp station, 3 for the Crown, perhaps). And the effect would be cumulative and gradual - taking out one would bump up the respawn timer. This respawn timer would have to apply to sunderers too otherwise they would provide a way around SCUs.

And as I said in the other thread I made, having zero adjacent territory held should inflict a penalty on a defending force similar to losing one of your SCUs.

Perhaps a combination? At a 5 SCU base, 3 outer SCUs can always be destroyed, the 2 inner ones cannot except at the halfway point.

Absolutely not. These ideas make everything worse not better. More points of whack-a-mole?

[redshirt]

I actually miss the gen system and the old school gen holds from PS1

Aslo miss the NTU silos - adding something similar to NTU silos back into the game would be nice and help the attackers break out of some of the insane seige stalemates.

[Stardouser]

Originally Posted by Wahooo

Absolutely not. These ideas make everything worse not better. More points of whack-a-mole?

Whack-a-mole can't be sustained if your spawn timer is going up for not defending them in the first place. But if you think that's too harsh, here's a different idea, then:

At large bases, have 3-4 totally separate spawn rooms, each with their own SCU. This would not include those foothold bases a few hundred meters out because those can be capped fast. A small base like the crown might have 2.

Each one would be independently powered by their own SCU. In this way, the SCUs would be one shot turns off spawning but it still gives the defenders second chances. The key for me here is not that I want SCUs in the game, but that something has to be done about us having usually one of two situations: 20 tanks and infantry sitting outside the one spawn room and no one can leave, or defenders winning by out-respawning the attackers and using their close proximity to the cap points - which means attackers pretty much have to highly outnumber the defense.

I really believe in tangible penalties for defenders isolated by having no adjacent territory as much as in SCUs, though.

Another idea is that each SCU can only be destroyed once per 10 minutes, or 5, maybe. That would mean that attackers better bring an organized game and take them all out at once, because if they get repaired they would be invulnerable for a while - that would stop whack a mole.

[Assist]

SCU should be tied directly to the capture mechanic imo. That's the point of them right? They're the spawn unit for whoever is defending. The only way to change that should be to actually take the base.

Making it so they only become attackable @ 50% cap is a step in the right direction, but personally I'd love to get away from the whole capture point system that every FPS seems to be in love with. King of the hill is cool and all, but eventually that beer gets stale and you want something new and exciting - like PBR! Though I don't really want more PBR..