When shotguns are nerfed witll they nerf to old ones to keeps the pumps attractive?

[Simo]

I think the community needs to clarify their message here. Are you talking about shotguns or PUMP shotguns? Because most of the bitching seems to be about Pump-guns but the posters rarely differentiate, unlike the 1st post. Even some of the replies in here don't claify. They simply state "shotguns" as if the auto and the pump are the same. It seems to me the biggest gripe is the 1 hit kill. Yet the posts often read "shotguns ruin the game." However we didn't see these kind of posts prior to the pump-guns. So I'm assuming that some people still can't tell the difference yet suddenly noticed they got 1 shot.

I do not have a pump-gun. I see them often but rarely die to them, maybe once per play session. But there seems to be a ton of outrage against them. I do expect them to be nerfed at some point. Hopefully it's done in a way that just limits its effective range or increases damage fall off over range. I'm sorry but if the guy is pushing the barrel against your chest your probably deserve a 1 shot.

Those of you who think you'll get a refund if they nerf the pump-guns keep dreaming. Ask every Magrider, Prowler, or ESF pilot about their refunds. They are always balancing the game. It will continue to happen. If you don't know that by now you will have many disappointments in life.

[CasualCat]

They could change pumps by making them more versatile.

In other words let the pump user once certed into slugs (and maybe future ammo options?) be able to change their chambered ammo type on the fly or even change out the entire magazine.

[Ghoest9]

Originally Posted by ThatGoatGuy

Even if it fires twice a second, you can fire what, like 4 or 5 a second with a shotty like the nighthawk?

As for the whole "its just a slower semi auto", the name is pump shotgun. You pump it, and it's loaded by individual shells, not by magazine. "More pellets"... Wut? I didn't say anything about pellets. I was referring to Damage Per Second (DPS idiot).

1
The Sweeper fires 250 times per minute.

The Claw fires 120 times per minute.

The Piston fires 300 times per minute.

Dont rant about numbers if you are going make up the numbers.


2
And I dont really care what its called - it IS a semi-auto in actuality.




Seriously just be quite. Not because your opinions are silly - but because you state falsehoods as fact over and over.

[Binkley]

Originally Posted by Ghoest9

2 Where did this crazy idea that pumps have more pellets come from?

The pumps do have more pellets, at least according to the weapon data sheet linked ITT.

Pump 143 (damage) x 10 (pellets) = 1430 DPShot (insta-death) if all pellets hit (CQC)
All other SG are 143 x 6 = 858 DPShot (not insta-death) if all hit.

[CasualCat]

Originally Posted by Ghoest9

1
The Sweeper fires 250 times per minute.

The Claw fires 120 times per minute.

The Piston fires 300 times per minute.

Dont rant about numbers if you are going make up the numbers.


2
And I dont really care what its called - it IS a semi-auto in actuality.




Seriously just be quite. Not because your opinions are silly - but because you state falsehoods as fact over and over.

Didn't he say 4-5 times/second?

Auto shotgun rate of fire: 300RPM *1min/60sec = 5 Rounds/sec
Semi-auto shotgun rate of fire: 250 RPM * 1/60sec = 4.167 rounds/sec

The pump shotguns truly are pump actions not semi-autos. After each shot, your character actuates the pump chambering a new round and extracting the empty hull. You can see this most easily if you fire till empty. The animation reloads the magazine then actuates the pump extracting the last empty hull.

quick and dirty video:

The semi-autos chamber the rounds/extract the empties for you (hence the term semi-automatic).

[Juryrig]

Originally Posted by CasualCat

The pump shotguns truly are pump actions not semi-autos. After each shot, your character actuates the pump chambering a new round and extracting the empty hull. You can see this most easily if you fire till empty. The animation reloads the magazine then actuates the pump extracting the last empty hull.

The semi-autos chamber the rounds/extract the empties for you (hence the term semi-automatic).

Umm, no, they're all just pixels on a screen.

Hit the mouse button, the system calculates a hit/miss and damage calculation whilst playing an animation. Assuming you keep mashing the fire button, there's a pause, the length of which is determined by the weapon stats, during which the system plays a further animation, then the cycle repeats itself with another hit/miss and damage calculation.

What the animation actually shows is...fluff. Hence the comment about the pump actually being semi-autos. Functionally they are. You press the fire button, release it, press it again. They are distinguished from fully auto weapons in the need to release the fire button and re-press it between rounds.

Now, if you had to hit the fire button, then had to hit another key to operate the pump action, then hit fire button again to fire the next round...then, functionally, it wouldn't be a semi auto.

[PredatorFour]

Originally Posted by Snydenthur

Slug ammunition, while it needs a bit more skill (mostly because of low bullet velocity), is useless though. It's too inaccurate to use outside of vr since you'll have to stand completely still while shooting. That is a certain death in this game even for a player that has aimbot.

I beg to differ.... /disagree

[CasualCat]

Originally Posted by Juryrig

Umm, no, they're all just pixels on a screen.

Hit the mouse button, the system calculates a hit/miss and damage calculation whilst playing an animation. Assuming you keep mashing the fire button, there's a pause (also determined by the stats) wuring which the system plays a further animation, then the cycle repeats itself with another hit/miss and damage calculation.

What the animation actually shows is...fluff. Hence the comment about the pump actually being semi-autos. Functionally they are. You press the fire button, release it, press it again. They are distinguished from fully auto weapons in the need to release the fire button and re-press it between rounds.

Now, if you had to hit the fire button, then had to hit another key to operate the pump action, then hit fire button again to fire the next round...then, functionally, it wouldn't be a semi auto.

Yes based on user control inputs they're slow semi-autos.

Would gameplay really be enhanced by an added button to cycle bolts for bolt/pump action weapons, or do we accept that they're attempting to mimick that mechanic by limiting your clickable rate of fire without making the interface clumsy?

[Juryrig]

Originally Posted by CasualCat

Yes based on user control inputs they're slow semi-autos.

Would gameplay really be enhanced by an added button to cycle bolts for bolt/pump action weapons,

No. It would be a total PITA

or do we accept that they're attempting to mimick that mechanic by limiting your clickable rate of fire without making the interface clumsy?

Yes.

I was just expanding on the assumed reasoning behind the earlier comment about them actually being semi-autos. Apologies if it came off as being dickish.

[Entaro]

If the pump isn't a OHK, then its a worthless piece of trash. If it needs re-balancing (I'm not sure it does, given its limitations) then increase pump reload time... don't make it 2 hit kill with longer range. For a OHK you h ave to be pretty much on center mass anyway. If you shoot at the arms and half the pellets miss you are boned by any half competent rifle/carbine user.

They also need to fix the reloading sequence for pump action, since the animation shows you putting in 1 shell at a time, except that you can only interrupt the reloading animation by clicking the fire button, which has a delay. So if I am at 0/5 and there is an enemy around the corner I want to kill quickly, I have to either wait for 5 shots to reload or try and estimate the correct timing for a 1 shot reload cancel.

[ThatGoatGuy]

Originally Posted by Ghoest9

1
The Sweeper fires 250 times per minute.

The Claw fires 120 times per minute.

The Piston fires 300 times per minute.

Dont rant about numbers if you are going make up the numbers.

Are you too incompetent to actually read my post? I clearly stated that the auto shotties have more than double the rof of the pumps.

Originally Posted by Juryrig

Apologies if it came off as being dickish.

Kinda were :P

Making it to a two hit kill with longer range is just foolishness. It wouldn't be really a nerf, just a sidestep. And like Entaro said, it would be entirely useless. The nerf would have to be something involving reload time or pump time. Doing anything to the range would also be crap, because the range is already fairly limited.

The crap from semi auto-ness is basically based off of technicality. Technically, everything in the game is semi auto. No need to be a douche about it. You play the game because of the way it looks and gameplay, and in game it looks like a pump action.

[Dragonskin]

Shotguns are OP in real life too. Why do you think Germany tried to get them banned under the laws of warfare?

Thankfully shotguns in game don't behave like real shotguns.

Anyway, the pump shotguns are kinda OP in PS2 due to how often you are in CQC environments. I bought one recently and you can mow down people before they have time to react. It's a great feeling. It must be how NC MAX users feel. Outside of CQC ranges they drop off drastically and you are better off with any other gun. Not sure how I feel about them exactly because every faction has access to them and you have to buy a shotgun regardless unless you are a NC MAX. SMGs still have their own special place since they can be silenced and can compete at slightly further ranges than the shotguns.

Really though if you don't have a shotgun or smg in cqc you will have a hard time now. Those 2 weapon types changed CQC a lot.

[TheSaltySeagull]

If a pump shotgun nerf was to happen then the auto/semi auto ones would be nerfed as well to keep the pump an attractive option. For example the pump is a two shot kill and the others are now three shot kills. Because aside from its damage and pellet spread there is no advantage to the pump as opposed to the others.

Personally I would remove them and refund the SC/certs. The original set of shotguns was sufficient and there was no real need to introduce the pump action version and so far all it has done has caused problems. But then again I am not a fan of OHK small arms especially in a large scale game like planetside were you can run into dozens of people running around with them.

[Dragonskin]

Originally Posted by TheSaltySeagull

If a pump shotgun nerf was to happen then the auto/semi auto ones would be nerfed as well to keep the pump an attractive option. For example the pump is a two shot kill and the others are now three shot kills. Because aside from its damage and pellet spread there is no advantage to the pump as opposed to the others.

Personally I would remove them and refund the SC/certs. The original set of shotguns was sufficient and there was no real need to introduce the pump action version and so far all it has done has caused problems. But then again I am not a fan of OHK small arms especially in a large scale game like planetside were you can run into dozens of people running around with them.

I can agree with this. If they are going to nerf the pump shotguns then just remove them and give a refund. Maybe take the pump animation and put it on the semi-auto ones to retain the feel of a pump shotgun. The original shotguns were fine.

[Ghoest9]

Originally Posted by Binkley

The pumps do have more pellets, at least according to the weapon data sheet linked ITT.

Pump 143 (damage) x 10 (pellets) = 1430 DPShot (insta-death) if all pellets hit (CQC)
All other SG are 143 x 6 = 858 DPShot (not insta-death) if all hit.

Sorry if I didnt make that clear.

I was referring to real life pump shotguns - my point being there is no intrinsic reason a pump shotgun should do extra damage.