Obscure and inconsistent design choices

[Emperor Newt]

Originally Posted by Gatekeeper

Can you actually put down two separate ammo packs? If so, I didn't realise that. Or am I misunderstanding?

No you can't (at some point in beta you could if I remember correctly). That's the point. You have two ammo packs, but you can always only have one on the ground (putting the other down despawns the first one).

afaik (please correct me if I am wrong) the only use the second ammo pack has is that you can put one down when your mana turret is up (because using the mana turret despawns the mana ammo pack). But I might be mistaken here.

[Gatekeeper]

Originally Posted by Rbstr

Some of these things aren't "inconsistencies"

Why wouldn't a generator that powers a facility blow up more violently than a single vehicle?
Ammo packs aren't consumables, they spawn just like the turret and are, in fact, an alternate fire mode for the turret deploy. Having it show up in the consumables slot, though, is inconsistent. (Of course, I would like it to be throw-able)

or "obscure"
If you want blowing up a generator to be an objective to fight over, you can't have it just explode when some infantry pile a bunch of C4 on it. That intention is not obfuscated in the least.
Nor is it inconsistent, as every generator behaves the same way.
Mines and C4 - which are traps - should have indicators like nades? Again, not obscure or inconsistent. They are persistent and exist in a different slot and are not "quick throw-able"

I'm talking about what is consistent from a design PoV, not trying to argue realism. Perhaps a generator would be a bigger explosion than a tank, perhaps it wouldn't - it's really impossible to say.

What we can say for sure is that a lot of players don't expect generators to explode hugely and kill them - and since vehicle explosions are much smaller, they may be expecting something along those lines.

Clearly we agree that the way ammo packs work currently is inconsistent, so I'm not sure why you're mentioning it

The fact that generators need you to go up and press E is (somewhat) obscure, and is not consistent with the mechanics for destroying other objects. New players see a generator and shoot at it, because that's the obvious thing to do. They get repair tools out when they see it overloading, because that's the obvious thing to do.

That's because to destroy other things (like vehicles and turrets) you do shoot them, and when you see them burning that does mean they need repair.

That's what I mean by design consistency - if the design is consistent then learning one part of the game teaches you the rest. If the design is inconsistent then you have to learn each individual mechanic separately, which is frustrating and takes longer.

I understand why generators work the way they do - there are good design reasons for it - but it is both inconsistent and obscure. Finding a solution that meets those same design goals but which is also consistent and obvious would be preferable - that's why I suggest replacing the generators with hackable consoles: basically the same as the current mechanic, but more intuitive.

[Gatekeeper]

Originally Posted by Emperor Newt

No you can't (at some point in beta you could if I remember correctly). That's the point. You have two ammo packs, but you can always only have one on the ground (putting the other down despawns the first one).

afaik (please correct me if I am wrong) the only use the second ammo pack has is that you can put one down when your mana turret is up (because using the mana turret despawns the mana ammo pack). But I might be mistaken here.

As far as I'm aware there is no difference between placing an ammo pack that you've got equipped in your utility slot or placing an ammo pack using the ACE tool. You can have one ammo pack down at a time, and placing a new one (with either method) replaces the currently deployed one.

Whether or not you have a turret deployed doesn't affect your current ammo pack, or your ability to place a new one.

At least I *think* that's how it works! The fact that we're not sure about all this really makes my point about how the current design is confusing and unintuitive!

[DeltaGun]

Lol, I like the list. They are all true. People who are picking them apart are missing the point.

To a new player, the inconsistencies are unintuitive.

[Wahooo]

Originally Posted by Gatekeeper

Reading the thread about the new tutorial, I had a bit of a rant about how there are a lot of strange/obscure/inconsistent design choices in PS2 that make it harder for people to learn the game.

At Shogun's suggestion I'm reposting my list here (rather than hijacking the tutorial thread any more!):
[LIST=1][*]Every class has a special ability on F. Except LA who has it on space. And Engineer, who doesn't have one.[*]Every class has a special class-defining 'tool' in slot 3. Except for LA, who

What is the class defining tool in slot 3 for HA and Max? Oh... so 1/2 the classes have a tool like medic has a medic tool and engie has and engie tool that actually makes sense.
Every class has a special ability on F... unless on Max you cert into something other than charge then they don't have it anymore, and engie doesn't either. So actually F is a special button for a few of the classes and in certain situations, that makes sense as well.

[Gatekeeper]

Originally Posted by Wahooo

What is the class defining tool in slot 3 for HA and Max? Oh... so 1/2 the classes have a tool like medic has a medic tool and engie has and engie tool that actually makes sense.
Every class has a special ability on F... unless on Max you cert into something other than charge then they don't have it anymore, and engie doesn't either. So actually F is a special button for a few of the classes and in certain situations, that makes sense as well.

The defining tool of the HA is the rocket launcher. Did you not notice those?

True, the MAX doesn't have one - but it's pretty different to all the other classes (has timer, costs resources, has no shield, dual-wields, etc. etc.) so I didn't think it was worth mentioning.

The *default* MAX does have a special ability on F though. The fact that you can remove it doesn't change the fact that it's a little strange that the Engineer doesn't get one *at all*.

[Aiden]

I agree with your list, and it generally points to the same truism about Planetside 2's newbie-friendliness. It's not hard to play. It's just unintuitive.

Here's some more for you.

1. When you buy a scope or a vehicle weapon, you have to re-buy it for every new gun or vehicle. Despite being identical, the "Sunderer Bulldog" is somehow different than the "Harasser Bulldog." Then, you have to upgrade it separately, too.
2. Weapons and vehicle weapons have unclear roles. When would I use a Bulldog over a Fury? When would I use a Fury over a Bulldog? Why can't I tell at a glance which ones are AA, AI, and AV?
3. Weapon descriptions are minimal and vague. For $7 weapons, you'd think they'd be descriptive. Example: S carbines can equip underbarrel weapons that no other guns can, but that's nowhere to be found in the tooltip.
4. Charlie squad is the same color as the Vanu Sovereignty, which is confusing for icons.
5. The Squad Waypoint for every squad is the same color as Alpha squad.
6. The Platoon Waypoint is the same color as Bravo squad.
7. The Platoon Leader color is almost identical to Bravo squad's color.
8. Autorun keybind is different in vehicles. Also, it doesn't work the same way (if you bring up your map, you will stop driving).
9. Underbarrel launchers push the rest of your items forward one slot, so your keybinds for pistol/utility change from loadout to loadout.
10. Equipment terminals replenish your shield, but not your health. If you want to heal yourself at an equipment terminal, you have to switch to Medic, use his special ability, and switch back.
11. Some vehicle third person views are 360 deg (Sunderer, Harasser, tanks)... except the Flash (60 degrees).
12. Vehicle locking has a "save and exit" button. In no situation would you ever not want to "save and exit" this simple 3-choice dialog. This button could be combined with Cancel into "OK" so that hitting escape or page up again would save your selection.
13. In the cert list for a class, you have to wade through a list of locked weapons to reach the unlocked weapons you own and would actually like to upgrade.
14. Night vision (and the IRNV scope) work in daytime, and highlight enemies like thermal vision. Yet, there's a separate thermal vision that works very similarly but not exactly the same, and costs more.