Question from Malorn: Continental Lattice Mechanics

[bpostal]

Originally Posted by Calista

Someone asked Matt in the last CC about warpgates actually warping vehicles etc and he said it was not planned anytime soon. It kinda sounded like to me that even after continent linking you would have to use that terminal to spawn over to a new cont.

That is kinda disappointing. I was hoping for 'sooner' rather than 'later' but so are we all I guess.

If it's years down the road before they start looking at this then I may have to ask about a deconstruction station (dependent on the resource revamp).

[Vashyo]

I think sanctuaries are a really good idea still, since they would allready add 3 more continents to attack from. I'd prefer instead of making new sanctuaries, we would just turn the VR rooms into Sanctuaries. They don't really have to be big or anything too fancy since they will just be used to move up to other continents.

[Babyfark McGeez]

So...14 months after going live they are now/still brainstorming how to implement the main fucking core base mechanic of the whole game. Yeah, sounds about right.

Here's my tip for them: Check up this very forum, hit "search" and look for the countless good ideas that have been posted in the past 1-2 years.

[ringring]

Originally Posted by Calista

Someone asked Matt in the last CC about warpgates actually warping vehicles etc and he said it was not planned anytime soon. It kinda sounded like to me that even after continent linking you would have to use that terminal to spawn over to a new cont.

Yea, it's on the roadmap ("Vehicle Zoning") but down as unscheduled.

For me the new continents, inter-continental lattice and zoning need to come in together and and as someone has said everything discussed here are 'core mechanics'.

Instead we get more events and WDS which, with respect to Malorn, are to me at best placeholders and possibly also act as distractions.

[Calista]

Originally Posted by ringring

Yea, it's on the roadmap ("Vehicle Zoning") but down as unscheduled.

For me the new continents, inter-continental lattice and zoning need to come in together and and as someone has said everything discussed here are 'core mechanics'.

Instead we get more events and WDS which, with respect to Malorn, are to me at best placeholders and possibly also act as distractions.

And how far overdue is Hossin from the original plan? I remember someone asked Maggie about Searhus and she rolled her eyes and said that is WAAAAY down the road. I really hope this game takes off on PS4 because that is about the only thing that is gonna kick this game in the pants and get it moving again.

[NewSith]

My suggestion on the whole thing, since Malorn didn't indicate in detail what his system implies:

• Add outpost designs into each warpgate, so it's not just an open shooting range.
• Add spawnroom protection for spawns.
• Keep triple adjacency rule for the warpgates.
• Once a WG is link-opened, disable the shield.
• Add 1-3 CPs on each warpgate that activate only after warpgate shield goes down.
• Empires compete for the control of the warpgate.
• Once captured on one side, the other side of the warpgate loses the warpgate shield, points activate and spawnroom changes ownership (along with spawnroom painfield).*
• (Optional) 20-30 Second delay is issued when WG loses ownership when the WG becomes neutral, but the shield remains. After that delay A pulse destroys every enemy inside the warpgate, before shield goes down.**
• (Optional) This is all assuming there isn't going to be vehicle zonning, otherwise the area where vehicles are teleported to should also get some kind of spawn protection.

*The other side of the warpgate changes ownership as long as controlling empire holds at least 1 WG, not counting the one in question.
**There has to be some visible notification of it. Also the warpgate shield should go up for that delay even if the three bases on two sides belong to non-controller empires (Like 3 NC bases on one side and 3 TR bases on the other side of a VS warpgate.


----------------------------

Originally Posted by Malorn

Downtime. If an empire abandons a continent what to do with the downtime of gobbling up undefended territories? It was a boring part of PS1.

Keep it. Didn't we already encounter situations where zergy-go-rounds took over the entire game, because attacking empty bases wasn't de-incentivised. Imagine what happens if you INCENTIVISE people to capture empty conts.

Originally Posted by Malorn

Warpgate camping. If the opposite happens and two empires fight hard to control a gate, what does that fight look like?

This is what I started my suggestion with - make warpgates just another kind of a base. My suggestion is based on the basic idea of capitols from PS2 btw that happened to be quite fun.

Originally Posted by Malorn

Non-static gate assignments. How would you like to see warpgate positions handled? Do you want to fight for them, or do you want assigned gates that rotate on a schedule?

Dynamic warpgate connections with 3 continents, static when the number hits at least 5.

Originally Posted by Malorn

Empire compression. What happens if an empire gets reduced to 1 or 2 continents? Those players have to go somewhere. Folks on Connery have been seeing the limits reached, and that's with 3 continents!

There's a very low chance that an empire gets reduced to 1 continent if the pop balance is somewhat equal. Truth be told, I would rather have server pop limit being equal to continent pop limit. That's just my imho, and I know what people have to say against it.

[GeoGnome]

Okay folks, come on, at this point this is getting close to being derailed (Thank you btw Sith, was writing this Before I saw your post) so people can rail at the game's progress. Lets get back on topic: Continental Lattice, and how it should be done. If you want to be unhappy about this, go punch a pillow, or post on Reddit

Originally Posted by Dougnifico

I really don't understand the logistical trouble behind adding sanctuaries. They don't have to be super pretty. They don't have to be conductive to gameplay. You could just have some rolling hills with a random texture and lego-in some of the already made buildings and a pair of warpgates (or even just terminals) and BAM! Working sanctuaries.

For even less effort, make a large part a giant, flat dirt or grass field for tanks and crap to assemble on. Sanctuaries are easy. lol

Bonus easy points for SOE: Just ask a member or two from the community to build it for you. Just give them to tools. Now its done for free!

It's not a matter of making them, as much as it is a matter of why are they there? They are there for people storage, or that is the role they would have at present. People storage isn't great. Imagine logging on for the first time, not being able to get out of the VR, because your faction is down to one continent. That would be really annoying. People storage does not have to be so much of a waste.

Originally Posted by libbmaster

No, the point is to give outfits a place to regroup and pull vehicles before shipping out to contents.

If MBTs and heavy vehicles were only available at sanctuaries and Tech plants, we would have much less spam and thus grounds to buff said vehicles.

As was said, "If vehicle zoning was a reality" if it were, I'd agree with you... somewhat. I still think that the sanctuary is unnecessary if you put in something like a fortress (See my post). It'd fill the same function, wouldn't have to be a world space, and could perform a function, even if there is no one around (Reduce the ability to pull ES items, limiting to basic terminals, and let resource runs go there, where they will boost the faction's recharge on resources to home base connected bases)

Originally Posted by Obstruction

why? i don't see your point at all.

half the new spawns i see pull tanks at the warpgate and spend an hour running over friendly ESFs that landed to repair.

the other half get greased on the battlefield while staring at their keybindings.

I don't see your point here either.

People -start- at a warpgate already. Starting at a warpgate carries the possibility of you quickly getting to a fight, you have time to set up all your bindings there. What you are saying, is that people would start at... well, nowhere, they would start in a VR Room clone, with nothing to do, and if people are in VR by necessity, because they are driven back to their home gate, well... now they are Stuck in the VR.

That doesn't sound like a better system

[Baptist]

Ok so the continent is capped the faction who lost the continent is beaten back, I'm not going to formulate what conditions need to be made for this to be met but what about some sort of bridgehead feature, like an alert some sort of text goes off in game saying a bridgehead is forming on a captured continent, it would have to be more than one and have to be spread out but it's an idea.

[Rahabib]

Originally Posted by bpostal

I can't think of a faster way to get someone to stop playing than housing excess population in the VR. Even if you called the VR a sanctuary and moved on, anyone who has to sit there for any length of time to wait on a queue will flip their shit regardless of what you call it.

Sanctuaries also existed to give people a chance to regroup (As well as providing links to home conts via the broadcast wg's). I should never have to tell a platoon 'Fall back to the VR and pull armor for a counter assault!'

Call 'em what you want but if you're stuck there for more than a few minutes however, it doesn't matter what you call it. It'll boring and everyone will hate it (and continental lattice).

In the end, storage is storage as long as it's temporary and the home continent/sanctuary/VR/Valhalla gives a faction room to regroup and push out then you should see satisfied players.



So...same thing as what we have now except remove the lattice link to the WG itself? I'm not sure if that's what your talking about. I should mention that, to me, cont locking is more about adding permanence and a sense of satisfaction (that PS2 is currently lacking) than population control. Population control shouldn't be a major issue until we have more continents.

I kind of agree with GeoGnome. I think with the VR is just fine. Apart from being able to spend resources on vehicles etc. whether you are dumped in a sactuary with nothing to do or the VR, would be the same experience.

Besides, you select from the terminal the continent you want to go to. You spawn in that warp gate anyway, then pull your vehicles and such.

I guess if you wanted you could copy and paste a warp gate into another continent and call it a sanctuary you could.

I think that the Q1. of ghost capping is the bigger issue. It is boring. Even if its free XP its boring.

[Baneblade]

The first thing that needs to be done is to add at least two more continents.

[Mordelicius]

Originally Posted by GeoGnome

Quote from Malorn from the main forums, in regards to how you would capture continents in the upcoming continental lattice.

Some good design questions.

1) Surrounded maps should gradually flip when a certain % a continent is taken. If abandoned, the turnover rate should increase or altogether counted as "taken' if all resistance has ceased.

2) It is really contingent on how continents are capped and population movements. Unless that mechanic is elucidated, this can't really be answered.

3) Dynamic / Temporary "home bases"! I made a post about this months ago: http://www.planetside-universe.com/s...ad.php?t=55871.

A dynamic warpgate system provides the most possible uncertainties, unpredictability, configuration, strategy and gameplay, maximizing what PS2 has to offer. Basically, everyday can be little different from other days! If one is to take all the continents into 1 map and visually make a pattern, that pattern could be different on any single stretch of time.

4) In my suggestion above, empires can be 'pushed' and trapped in Battle Island Warpgates. All Continental WGs are conquerable. Since it is highly difficult to achieve complete continental WGs control, there will be always that pressure of overextension fighting the two other empires.

In default state, Battle Island are innate and inaccessible. If a Warpgate is conquered or taken, then, the Battle Island is activated and the losing side are pushed in. If the attacking force wants them locked in that BI, they have to attack from the OTHER side and conquer the opposite WG from another continent ! Thereby putting that BI on the locked state. But the trapped defenders can still sally forth hence the difficulty of overextension of forces of the conquerors trying to hold TWO warpgates on two differerent continents. Then again, that's just one link! There are other continental links making it even harder to just zerg all over . It will take strategy, finesse and cooperation just to take 2 continents (given all the links!). Three or 4 or even more, good luck!

If they take the EASIER route and attack the Battle Island instead, the defender is again pushed to the next continent and that Warp Gate 'locked' and unassailable. Hence, if an Empire wants a total multi-continental domination, they have to overstretch and attack on all sides, hence locking the other 2 Empires on the Battle Island Wargpates! This would be extremely difficult to achieve if one can imagine.

Lastly, on the separate question of 3 WG adjacent bases, just make special connection among them that only activate when a continental capture threshhold is achieved (say 75%).

[Timealude]

Originally Posted by GeoGnome

People -start- at a warpgate already. Starting at a warpgate carries the possibility of you quickly getting to a fight, you have time to set up all your bindings there. What you are saying, is that people would start at... well, nowhere, they would start in a VR Room clone, with nothing to do, and if people are in VR by necessity, because they are driven back to their home gate, well... now they are Stuck in the VR.

That doesn't sound like a better system

just making a correction here, i dont know if its a bug currently but it seems like on the test server you spawn in a deploy screen when you first log in into the game.

[Ghoest9]

Bring back the "back hacks."

[bpostal]

Originally Posted by Ghoest9

Bring back the "back hacks."

Better idea, bring back drains!

[Ohaunlaim]

Gave it some thought. These are hard questions within the limited scope they are giving us to work with (few continents, no vehicle warping, etc). Anyway...

1. A continent will be considered "locked" once all Warp-Gates on a single continent are owned by a single faction. When locked all continental bases, outposts, towers, terminals, turrets, capture points, and so on will revert immediately to the faction that locked the continent.

2. To claim an enemy WG the three connecting outposts must be captured by a single opposing faction. Capturing these drops the warp-shield, the safe-zone status of the WG area is removed, and capture points activate. The WG can now be captured similar to any other base.

Once a WG is captured the shield, safe-zone, and capture points revert to their normal status. In addition any enemy troops and vehicles within the warp-bubble deconstruct immediately. The capture of the WG also causes the connecting WG (on the next continent) to also become owned by the attacking faction. This will unlock any continent that may have previously been locked. The resulting energy pulse also causes the three connecting outposts on the next continent to malfunction and become neutral.

Neutral outposts have all their systems shut down (spawns, terminals, generators, turrets, etc) and require slightly longer-than-hack-times to reboot and capture. This can be done at standard capture points. From here the attackers must push forward to capture at least one outpost or, if the defenders re-capture all three, risk having their new WG on the next continent become capture-able (as per the system above).

3. At the initial introduction to this system all WG ownership should be as they are now (each empire owns one on each continent). This will also determine initial links (which may change with time and new continent introductions). After that let the players determine all WG ownership using the system at hand.

4. The obvious answers are Battle Islands, Hossin, Searhus, and all the other continents that need to be in game (hurry up plz). With enough continents this shouldn’t be a problem. But everyone knows that.

Before you can release such proper solutions, here are some band-aids (none of which I really like)...

a. Dynamic pop cap. Once a continent is locked by one faction, the other two factions gain an increased population cap on all other un-locked continents in order to accommodate displaced forces. This helps in re-taking WGs and unlocking continents.

b. Send them to VR. This is a shit idea, but can be done in desperation.

c. Force-unlock a WG on the least populated continent for the faction with the least WGs. Another shit idea that breaks immersion and takes control away from the players.