IMO KillCam killing the Game

[Hmr85]

Originally Posted by General M

So what happens if little Jimmy has killcam on and all the hardcore players (the ones who will probably kill you the most being the most involved and generally better) have their's toggled off? Unfortunately you can't have it both ways because that will basically make it harder for the new guys who have killcam on.

It means little Jimmy is not gonna learn shit from me. He can wait and learn from somebody who has theirs toggled on. Then if little Jimmy really wants to learn how to play the game he can go join a proper outfit who will put some time in to train him up right.

[Gortha]

@General M

You don´t understand. Reread: http://www.planetside-universe.com/f...845#post630845

[General M]

Originally Posted by Hmr85

It means little Jimmy is not gonna learn shit from me. He can wait and learn from somebody who has theirs toggled on. Then if little Jimmy really wants to learn how to play the game he can go join a proper outfit who will put some time in to train him up right.

Right so you think most people who play the game are going to want to jump straight into an outfit? 90% of the new players of the game probably won't have a clue what an outfit is, let alone want to join one.

The fact is there is no point in having an on/off option because it is heavily biased towards the person with the off option. The only way around this for me would be to have off as the start position.

BTW, I would rather not have killcam, but there's no way a 2-tier system would work

[Carbanu]

Originally Posted by RadarX

This has obviously been a very controversial topic for some of you. We want you to know we are of course reading through all this feedback.

If I could delve further though, are there restrictions that would make the kill cam bearable for those who are very against it?

I think the major consensus is that the ability for an enemy to see where they were just killed from and how is not conducive to this type of game. Planetside 2 is a persistant battlefield where our actions have repercussions further reaching than a twenty minute romp in a CoD or BF3 map.

If it was just an objective third person view like from above or an exact replay of what you saw as you died, it could work without damaging the tactical element. Of course the option to disable any kill cam would have to exsist, no one who is pissed off for getting owned wants to relive that moment. I personally hate kill cams. They are just annoying and a waste of resources that could have been utilized elsewhere like: VEHICLE ANIMATIONS.

[General M]

Originally Posted by Gortha

@General M

You don´t understand. Reread: http://www.planetside-universe.com/f...845#post630845

I understand but it's unfair:

Player with off - knows he cannot be viewed in killcam, knows he won't get one, all good for him.

Player with on - May or may not get a killcam, not sure if the person he just shot gets a killcam.

It ultimately unbalanced.

[Graywolves]

Originally Posted by General M

I understand but it's unfair:

Player with off - knows he cannot be viewed in killcam, knows he won't get one, all good for him.

Player with on - May or may not get a killcam, not sure if the person he just shot gets a killcam.

It ultimately unbalanced.

It's not unbalanced at all. No one is supposed to actually recieve a benefit beyond education from killcams. Or just boasting a kill in someone's face.

The player with it on just doesn't always see himself die all the time.

[Vancha]

I can't help but feel the teaching merits of killcams are being overstated slightly. I don't think you'll have anyone giving up on a game because they missed a kill cam education...

[Graywolves]

Originally Posted by Vancha

I can't help but feel the teaching merits of killcams are being overstated slightly. I don't think you'll have anyone giving up on a game because they missed a kill cam education...

It's even questionable if a new player could actually reap educational benefits from the game or just mimick what he sees with little understanding of how it worked.

[General M]

Originally Posted by Graywolves

It's not unbalanced at all. No one is supposed to actually recieve a benefit beyond education from killcams. Or just boasting a kill in someone's face.

The player with it on just doesn't always see himself die all the time.

As I've said before, I don't want the killcam that we've got in BF3/MW3 atm. However it's such a core part of an FPS that having a toggle would be worse

[Hmr85]

Originally Posted by Vancha

I can't help but feel the teaching merits of killcams are being overstated slightly. I don't think you'll have anyone giving up on a game because they missed a kill cam education...

Thank you, I agree...

Nobody was there on day 1 of PS1 to teach me what did what. Nobody was there on day1 to teach anybody else in the game that just started what was what. We all managed to some how survive.

What SOE has implemented into PS1 imo is more than enough. If your a new player starting out. Every time you run to a terminal or select this vehicle or that. A nice little box pops up explaining what it does. I myself feel that is more than enough. As for education and learning how to play.
Little jimmy will pick up fast enough that running out across the field like its BF3 spraying everywhere and not taking cover is going to get you killed every time. He will notice his teammates hiding behind rocks and advancing slowly. He should be more than capable of picking this up himself.

In regard to outfits, your kidding your self if you do not think the first 3 months of this game general/local chat is not gonna be spammed with outfits recruiting. I would imagine new players will be like. Ohh those must be like guilds. I can assure SquadX will be recruiting. So if you wanna join a proper outfit with 30+ guys on starting day send me a message on here. There shameless promotion. But will be bringing in new guys left and right.

[Raymac]

Originally Posted by Vancha

I can't help but feel the teaching merits of killcams are being overstated slightly. I don't think you'll have anyone giving up on a game because they missed a kill cam education...

You're looking at it wrong. People won't quit because kill cams aren't in the game. People will quit because the learning curve is so steep and they are dying too much.

Constantly getting your ass kicked is never fun, and that is one of the concerns and complaints I've heard about mmofps games. It's that there is sooo much going on, so much chaos, so many different ways to die compared to the 8v8 games fps players are so used to. Hell there are threads in this forum of people asking for help in this regard.

Now, those of us who have played PS know that you can get over that initial hump and increase your lifespan, but it takes time to learn that. I don't care how awesome you think you are, surviving in Planetside has a steeper learning curve than most shooters. While there are certainly other ways that can be employed to help with that initial shock, kill cams are an immediate and helpful resource. Simply dismissing them out of hand is short sighted.

[Vancha]

Well that was sort of the implication I was making. Would kill cams honestly cause someone to climb the learning curve when they would otherwise have quit? I kind of doubt it. The reasons that PS has it's learning curve isn't down to it's combat mechanics. Though even if it were, I think there'd be better alternatives for educating players that didn't come with the downsides of a kill cam.

[Azren]

Originally Posted by Raymac

You're looking at it wrong. People won't quit because kill cams aren't in the game. People will quit because the learning curve is so steep and they are dying too much.

Constantly getting your ass kicked is never fun, and that is one of the concerns and complaints I've heard about mmofps games. It's that there is sooo much going on, so much chaos, so many different ways to die compared to the 8v8 games fps players are so used to. Hell there are threads in this forum of people asking for help in this regard.

Now, those of us who have played PS know that you can get over that initial hump and increase your lifespan, but it takes time to learn that. I don't care how awesome you think you are, surviving in Planetside has a steeper learning curve than most shooters. While there are certainly other ways that can be employed to help with that initial shock, kill cams are an immediate and helpful resource. Simply dismissing them out of hand is short sighted.

PS was easy to pick up and play. With the cert system in place you did not get access to any complicated weapons at getgo, and what you needed to know was to be found in the tutorial missions.

Kill cam having any kind of teaching ability? Right... please explain to me how seeing the guy who gave the _last shot_ into me (while other 10 were doing likewise) will have any benefits? Maybe in using some very special tactics? Well, those should be outfit secrets, something to look forward to if you join a well known team of players, not something to copy from a video.

For me a killcam simply takes away the reality feel fo the game. You know, the immersion of it being a constant world. While you see a killcam you are removed from the actual gameworld, and just see some recording from the past.

[Gortha]

Originally Posted by General M

I understand but it's unfair:

Player with off - knows he cannot be viewed in killcam, knows he won't get one, all good for him.

Player with on - May or may not get a killcam, not sure if the person he just shot gets a killcam.

It ultimately unbalanced.

I think it´s not unfair.

Those who want to see a killcam and want to be shown on a kill cam can see each other, that must be enough. They just don´t see a kill cam from killers who don´t want to be revealed and have turned this game breaking "feature" off.

[Vancha]

^
Yeah, I just want to clarify that despite my constant opposition to this, I neither think it would be game-breaking nor completely ruin sniping. Calling it a "game breaking feature" is going a tad far I think.