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Originally posted by Kaikou
What really bugs me is that everything written in the bible is not possible to be proven, you have to just "have faith" that what is written is true. Man evolved from the monkey, you want proof? it's buried all over the world. Science can prove things, religion just tells you things and says "if you believe in god then you have to believe this". That is what bothers me about religion. That people will actually believe this stuff because they read it in a book that in no way can be proven legitimate. When you debate religion with a religious person, you can easily notice they are getting uneasy and nervous that they are talking about the subject of there being a god or not. This just enforces my point that humans created god and not the other way around. Even though they read that this god is all forgiving, they still fear him and act like good people so they can get into heaven when they die.
Which brings me to my next point. Humans are naturally scared of death because they don't know what happens when you die. So they trick themselves into thinking that there is an afterlife. Just so they feel at ease about what happens after death. What do I believe happens when you die? You die, and you rot. Just like every other organism in this universe. People don't think it is possible that you can just cease to exist, that you have a "soul" or some form of conscience that exists even after death. People think that because we've evolved to the point that we actually think about things like death and try to understand it, but no matter how hard we try, we can't. When bugs die, do you think they go to heaven? No, they just cease to exist. What difference is there between humans and bugs besides intelligence? We're both living things, we both die, we both cease to exist. The whole "soul" or "spirit" term was probably just created for the loved ones of people who die to believe the deceased are still with them somehow.
My conclusion. I believe religion is a fantasy world humans have created to be cushoned from the harsh existance that is reality. If they aren't strong enough to handle reality, they turn to religion to feel better about what they are and what will happen to them.
I must admit though, if man did create god and religion, they were pretty cleaver to scare people into being good, and put their minds at ease about the unknown at the same time...
Edit: forgot to add this...
It has been proven that organic matter can in fact blink into existance through a series of naturally occuring events.
Also, if god is perfect, and he created man, he obviously went wrong somewhere. Unless god enjoys watching humans kill each other over religion (religion is the base of all war, research the start of all the wars in history and you'll find that 99.9% were due to religious conflicts) and just watches humans fight as a form of some twisted enjoyment, he is obviously not perfect.
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You just went into phenomanal detail to describe your own made up doctrine in wich you are your own deity. You also must have quite a faith in this beleif system because you are willing to stake your eternal soul on it. The instances of evolution around the world a few and far between with many of them either having very little scientific proof or having been proven hoaxes, mistakes, or weird medical cases. If evolution is in fact the system that gave birth to everything, then how come there is only a handfull of "instances" of it that are often times in-conclusive or downright not true. Reconstructing a whole skull around a single tooth and a skull fragment seems kinda weak to me. Also, where are the living instances of evolution? Is man the end? Is man as far as the evolutionary chain goes? If so, how come the monkeys we have today aren't becoming something else, human or otherwise. Mankind has spread to every corner of the world and has been around for quite some time and not once has any instance of missing link been found living on this planet.
As far as the Bible having no scientific backing, you couldn't be further from the truth. In the book of Joshua it says that God made the sun and moon stand still so the Isrealites could win their war. Scientists have studyed the rotation of the earth and the timeline of history and have found that some point along the way the earth did indeed "skip" a period of time in the earths rotation. There is also several scientific studys behind the proof of the Flood.
And you got one part right, i do fear God. Not in a, way you would think about it, but more of an intense respect for his power and righteousness. The way I see ii, God is not tolerant, but he is patient. If you ask God for forgivenss, it is granted, but as meany of you out there with children know, being forgiven does not nulify repercussions. God will forgive your sins if you ask and will let you in to heavan, but you have to understand that what you did is wrong, repent, and make an actuall effort to not do that again. And in case you haven't noticed yet, i am not getting uneasy, people get uneasy when beleif systems they are not confident and knowledgable about are being tested. They are unsure if it will actually hold up to scrutiny and get nervous. Thats the case with all people, not just Christians.
As far as you saying that there is no afterlife, that has no more "proof" then me saying it does. As far as animals and humans, the difference is in the soul (yes, I know, you don't buy it, but its true) humans can tell the difference between right and wrong, even if they choose to ignore it. When you do something wrong, you can feel it (assuming you have a conscience), animals don't, they act on instinct and training. There is no such thing as an evil animal, or a good animal for that matter.
You say that matter can "poof" itself into existence, I am going to have to see proof of that before I beleive it, because that breaks several well established laws of the universe. And no, God made no mistake. If you read Genesis, Adam and Eve where first created in a perfect world, the Garden of Eden, where they walked and talked with God. God gave humans the gift of freedom of choice, meaning that God could not force us to choose him and follow his rules, or reject him and not. Adam and Eve sinned, creating a rift between man and God. God gave man the choice, Man chose to not follow his rules. He could have scrapped the whole Humanity project right there, but he didn't. He told them there was still a way to get back to a perfect fellowship with God, by following the way he provided us so that we could go to heaven.
Also, even if there are certain circumstances that allow for spontaneous apperance of matter (wich I
strongly doubt) who created those instances? At some point
something had to be made, wheither it be primordial goo, the instnaces that allow for spontaneous construction, or completed humans and animals themselves.
My conclusion. We each have our own beleif system, and each requires faith. You obviously have faith that there is no afterlife, because you have no proof. I obviously have faith that there is because I have no proof. The fact is that every human being has a beleif system, cenetered around a deity. Some put nature in that deity spot, saying natures laws are ultimate, un-bendable standards of everything. Some put man in that spot, saying that we can, through thought and education, make themselves perfect. No one escapes this world without a beleif system and a deity. You have just set yourself up as your own deity in your beleif system.
he created everything, but only man in his image and likeness.
I'm just continuing this because it's fun to read everyone's replies with the universal "god exists and if you don't believe so I feel sorry for you". I don't wanna read entire essays because I'm just having fun with this.
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