The NC Jackhammer. The last straw.

[BDMJ]

In response to TH: If you moved at all prior to crouching, he would know your position. Audio amp triggers off of almost anything.

[JuSTCHiLLiN]

These types of threads should be on the offical boards not here.

[Ait'al]

first of all, the NC is based on brute force, and also the lasher can lash so you dont have to lead the target as much.. the mcg is the only one that i think takes some skill

Its depends on your style of gameplay. And th fact that if your even saying that in htis situatiion you have not even begun to have taken in all the styles in the game IE mastered anything! This game has many different styles of gameplay(in this case weapon use) incorporated and you must learn them all and more to have a real grasp on anything. In the old days this is the sort of things us, what you would call "ultra nerds" who had been gaming for more that 10 years than all of you, knew as newbies(not to be mistaken with the modern usage.) Anything resembling mastering anything even remotely game oriented involves knowing eveything about the games in general(not just one game or something as simple and pathetic as an FPS) especially game design! And real game design not i put a gun in here so you shoot with it! Those subtle things that newer gamers have not yet learned to appreciate that used to even make up entire Genres of games. Think the rest up yourselfs. And yes i know newbie was not used that much then it used to just be a lite hearted joke! That isnt quite the word i was thinking of but it works!(This is to everyone)

Bassically you just have to learn more about the game and not let yourself setle on thinking youve learned everything before you have.

Its sad i havent heard anyone try to uphold the old game standards in like 10 years! The internet used to be a freindlier place than the outside world.

It used to be impossible to join a game thing anywhere and not be flooded with what you needed to know.

People used to hate this "were a community we do what we like thing" The idea of calling something a community outside of all gamers in general was appalling.

What happened to strictly encouraging new people too?(yea, yea, great place to state this, but....) Its like people dont even remember it anymore.

rules: #1 New people (usualy said newbs, this being before it was a cruel word) have respect for veterans.
#2 Veterans be kind to all new people.(newbs like above) Usually stated more elaberatly than this.

That used to be the staple of every set of rules on hte internet. Hell htey were the strict foundations of all rules back them. The only ones in many cases.

I wonder where everyone from back then went.

This world has fallen so far in the last ten years.

[Veteran]

Funny how people will attack each other's Heavy Assault weapons instead of own up to the fact that they're milking Surge. When it gets nerfed/removed you'll have to change your playstyle anyhow, so you'd might as well admit it now and have an intelligent discussion about your problem.

My name is Veteran and I'm a Surgeaholic.

See, not so hard.

[SilverLord]

Agile. MCG. Surge. Kills the Rexo JH no prob, just don't get close to him and back up when he tries to get close.

[SecondRaven]

Originally Posted by Veteran

Funny how people will attack each other's Heavy Assault weapons instead of own up to the fact that they're milking Surge. When it gets nerfed/removed you'll have to change your playstyle anyhow, so you'd might as well admit it now and have an intelligent discussion about your problem.

My name is Veteran and I'm a Surgeaholic.

See, not so hard.

Heh i agree totaly....

[IronWolf]

Me = love MCG

it may take skill but i think it could be the best of all the three

I ask you, when there is a tower fight and everyone cowers in the stairwell waiting for a miracle(or a plasma grenade) i just run up the stairs and out. weaving past all the MAXs and tanks and going for the juicy unaware guys in the back, it always gets me killed but then i always kill 3 or 4 guys.....

as for exploits in the game, i have made it my business to find as many as i can
(not to use) and there is one that can be used in the CC of tech plants to see through walls

PS.. There is a HUGE exploit in the Tech plant entryway, i always wonder how anyone hasent used it, walk around the tech plant well in third person. im sure there will be two postions were you will be complety invisible, in my early days i would anchor a pounder there and mow through a zerg of guys without them knowing, i am saying this not to brag of how i once cheated just that i want these promblems fixed

[FireZ]

Originally Posted by SilverLord

Agile. MCG. Surge. Kills the Rexo JH no prob, just don't get close to him and back up when he tries to get close.

Because of the clientside hit detection anyone with surge on with less than Reinf exo can warp through you, apear on the other site, look like they ran through a wall. I had someone jump off a ledge and appear to go fall through the floor and then I died...(this is not be cause of my pc 2.4c/1gb 3200 ram running at 800mhz with a Geforce FX 5700).

The only way to fix this is to not allow a weapon out when you use surge. I mean max's cant use their weapons when they run...Either that or only allow the HA weapons to be used in Reinf exo.

[flypengy]

#1: TTK is better on MCG than JH so if you're whining about the JH... stop... because the MCG is now more powerful than the "noobhammer".

#2: The cool down time for the triple shot is very long... after you do the triple shot you are a sitting duck for a long time, you might as well be reloading.

#2: It is very hard to kill someone with the triple shot, especially in laggy battles like I'm sure most of you play. After you have missed with that shot you have more than ample opportunity to kill the person since they can't shoot for a while.

#3: The lasher can kill someone in 4-5 shots. (Not the 20 that your no aiming selves do). The same conditions to make all the pellets hit someone with a JH should make the lasher orbs just as easy to hit someone. (close quarters). Out doors the JH will have an advantage because it doesn't have to deal with near the travel time that orbs do.

#4: The JH is not a point and click weapon. You do have to lead your enemy. That rumour needs to be dispelled. You don't have to lead as much as the lasher or the mcg... but you do have to lead.

#5: The JH was nerfed. It's near impossible to kill an agile in 2 shots like it use to take. And just as hard to kill a rexo in 3. The MCG was boosted and the JH was nerfed... sorry... this sounds like a bunch of whiners that don't know how to lose...

#6: Aimbots... just please... stop... I refuse to even comment on something so ignorant. This isn't CS kiddies... get over losing.

[Acaila]

OMG HT HAX0RZ! joke

[InfiniteStorm]

I'll take my lasher over the other two anyday. I will take it in a hallway fight over any other weapon. If there are 5 guys down the hallway, I just fire and the lashes hit all of them. Outside, that's a different story. I have to lead by 5-10 at any sort of range. If they are zig zagging, good luck.

As far as surge, I don't mind it. I think they could fix it like some other people suggested by saying you couldn't fire when it is on like MAX's or another fix is not being able to use HA in a agile. Rexo should be the only ones able to wield the HA. Those are two fixes that could possibly work.

[BadAsh]

Originally Posted by flypengy

#4: The JH is not a point and click weapon. You do have to lead your enemy. That rumour needs to be dispelled. You don't have to lead as much as the lasher or the mcg... but you do have to lead.

To point #4 in your post, I did some testing with a surging buddy in agile armor. I had a Jackhammer and was able to score instant hits from several reasonable distances. Perhaps if you are trying to snipe with the Jackhammer you might have to lead. But if you are within the killing range of the weapon any leading you may have to do is so miniscule to be unnoticeable.

I hope this point and my other post in this thread do not come across as a flame or as a whine. It is not my intention to flame or whine. One of the things I enjoy about games like this is the process of analyzing enemy strengths and weaknesses. This way I know what to look for so I can frustrate the enemy by denying them their strengths and by exploiting their weaknesses. And here I am merely discussing the strengths of an enemy weapon that usually (by statistics I gathered) dominates me in battle.

Consider the following scenarios:

A TR in Agile armor equipped with the MCG and Surge implant vs. a NC in Agile armor equipped with a Jackhammer and Surge implant. For purposes of comparison I�m assuming equal player skill and even computer performance and connectivity (lag).

1. The TR manages to sneak behind the NC, he opens fire with the MCG. The TTK is such that the NC has a chance to turn around and get a triple blast before he dies. Who wins? Probably the TR, but the NC has a chance.

2. The NC manages to sneak behind the TR, he opens fire using the triple blast. The fight is over, the NC counts his experience points and the TR selects a respawn point.

3. The NC and TR see each other at the same time and they both cut loose. If the NC has triple burst selected, fires and hits, the NC wins. If the NC misses, he loses. This is a gamble to be sure but the NC is in the position to make the gamble. Things are pretty even here, but I�d give the advantage to the NC. If he feels comfortable making the triple shot he can. If not he can slug it out normally.

4. The NC and TR see each other at the same time and they both cut loose. But this time the NC has normal fire mode selected the odds are about even until you factor in the near instant hit capability of the Jackhammer vs. the MCG. If both are Surging and firing the NC has the advantage because the TR has to have superior prediction skills. Again, skill even, the Jackhammer has the advantage.

My buddy and I figured all of this out using our 7 day PS free trial. I tried VS, then TR, and then NC with a focus on heavy weapons usage/preferences. I ended up deleting these characters and going with TR because they suit my style more. Automatic weapons are just cooler. Though, my kill/death ratio was better with the Jackhammer. It's not all about the killing.

BadAsh

[aiwest420]

Originally Posted by TeraHertz

It takes a full magazine from the lasher to kill somone on full health.

4-5 shots for agile, 5-6 shots for reinf (direct hits)....

[Madcow]

Almost nobody uses the secondary mode for the JH, it's not worth the hassle when you can just hold down the trigger and chew people up without having to worry about that delay time after the 3 shotter.
Discussing the TTK for the JH/MCG is a bit misleading as the MCG having the faster TTK is based on hitting with every single bullet. If there is any movement going on at all, the MCG user is blooming like a mother and the JH user isn't blooming at all, and there's no way the MCG user is hitting with every bullet like that.

With all that being said, I think that HA is the most balanced it's ever been. I used to loathe the JH and it's still effective but it's no longer head and shoulders above all the other HA. For the first time since launch you can say that each HA has it's strong points and area that it will excel in but that they're fairly balanced. I'd prefer if they didn't keep tweaking them, HA has had enough adjustments for a while.

[Kuraltai]

Several good points made here. Thought I'd toss in my 2 bits (inflation).

I used to hate the JH and Lasher, still cringe when I hear them, but I've learned to fight them and actaully manage to survive against the both that I can walk away happy. So I feel that HA is now pretty well balanced .. and no, I'm not certed in it. I prefer the cycler/sweeper. Will swipe a Gauss if I have the chance.

What I don't like is fighting the surge monkeys, and they exist on all empires. I'm usually in Rexo or Max and cuss every time I run into one because I can't keep up with them. Occasionally I'll get lucky and survive, but it's not often .. gotta practice more.