What do you want to see in stealth?

[ProfessorCrow]

Originally Posted by Traak

No infantry should show up on radar, period.

Because in a world of alien battle suits, laser guns, orbital energy bombardment and invisibility armor, we shouldn't be able to detect human lifeforms on a basic radar.

I'm fine with infantry being on radar, but I agree that cloakers shouldn't. Their suits prevent them from being detected or some such fluff-accuracy.

-CroW

[Zulthus]

I think infantry should be able to be shown on radar, as long as they are spotted first.

[Traak]

Curious why people sign their posts. Don't you have a user name for that?

[CutterJohn]

I still liked how Crysis did it. Infantry could show up on radar, but only if they shot. Oh, and there was the little scanner you could get(rather necessary since EVERYONE was a cloaker.. ).

What it didn't do was show the grunt running around. If they shot, or you found them with the scanner, their location would ping on the radar for a few seconds and then fade. However, they also had a silencer attachment for several of the weapons that would keep you from pinging the minimap, at a cost of reduced range and damage.

I found that to be a good system.


So I'd say..

1. Shooting puts your location on the minimap. Shooting a silenced weapon does not, unless audio amp.
2. With audio amp, you see soldiers who are walking/running. Crouch walking/still enemies remain invisible.
3. Rather than darklight, I'd like to see a UV flashlight, or directed emp gizmo, that disrupted the cloakers cloak to make him visible. This would be more balanced than DL since the cloaker could see this as well, and know that he is in danger of being spotted. It would also be less likely to work by just being flipped on occasionally, since it would be a narrow cone rather than a full field of vision detection. Vehicles would have it too as a function of headlights, but again, narrow cone.
4. cloakers would still have infinite stealth while motionless, but I'd make the cloak short out for several seconds after firing. Invisible is for getting into position, not actual fighting. To compensate, they also have a reinforced cloak ability that lets them run/sprint for a limited time while fully cloaked. Sprinting while cloaked could show up on audio amp.
5. I'd be fine with a 'detect enemies' scanner, but the cloaker would have advanced sensors that tell him he's just been scanned and should move.
6. EMP disrupts cloak.

[Captain1nsaneo]

Radar in PS worked by either being inside an interlink SOI or when a player sees them.
Missiles are always shown. Though they played with removing missiles from radar as it was lagging the game down but the player base wanted it to stay as AA is annoying when you don't know which way to run.

[CutterJohn]

Originally Posted by Captain1nsaneo

Missiles are always shown. Though they played with removing missiles from radar as it was lagging the game down but the player base wanted it to stay as AA is annoying when you don't know which way to run.

A widish yellow bar on the hit indicator gizmo indicating general direction a lock is coming from. Perhaps an addon could be it flashing if missiles are inbound.

[Raka Maru]

I do like Cutter's thoughts on guns showing on radar, and cloaks getting jammered. Made me think of the malfunctioning predator suits.

I wonder if we can launch UAV's as CE that will reveal all but cloakers.

[CrystalViolet]

Originally Posted by CutterJohn

3. Rather than darklight, I'd like to see a UV flashlight, or directed emp gizmo, that disrupted the cloakers cloak to make him visible. This would be more balanced than DL since the cloaker could see this as well, and know that he is in danger of being spotted. It would also be less likely to work by just being flipped on occasionally, since it would be a narrow cone rather than a full field of vision detection. Vehicles would have it too as a function of headlights, but again, narrow cone.

This is an absolutely brilliant idea to replace darklight.

[Traak]

Audio Amp does nothing to speed the game up. It only slows it down. I want the game to encourage running and gunning. Not sitting and camping.

Anything that punishes you for running or gunning is bad.

[Xyntech]

Originally Posted by CViolet

This is an absolutely brilliant idea to replace darklight.

I had a slightly similar idea for a rifle variant that had a similar cone of effect style cloak disruptor.

The rifle would still be effective against ordinary enemies, but it would limit what weapons you could use while hunting for cloakers.

Instead of having a tiny cone, my thought was more along the lines of having a large cone that filled up most of your view area, but that the cone had to remain painting the cloaker for a little while before they would become easily visible. That way you couldn't just quickly spam a room looking for cloakers, you would have to do a more steady sweep.

The time it takes to expose them shouldn't be too long though, jonly like a quarter of a second to start revealing them, and then it would gradually reveal them more and more, up to being fully exposed after 4 seconds or so.

I'd also have the cloakers remain visible for a short time after they stopped being painted. Maybe the recloaking would take half as long as the exposing, so if a cloaker were painted for the full 4 seconds, it would only take 2 seconds to recloak. This would be so that, as long as you were able to keep repainting the target, the cloaker wouldn't just vanish due to some slight hiccup or latency glitch. Can't make the system be entirely in favor of cloakers, right?

[Justaman]

The option to remove my self from listing in the kill spam if I'm the stealth class. <---

Also, if I'm not in a state of "detected/detectable if someone looked in my direction", no network data on my position will being transmitted.

If I'm sprinting, but everyone is looking away from me, unless they hear me (or some other mothod that isn't looking at me), no network data is sent to them. Which should stem the use of 3rd party methods aimed at detecting stealthers.


Load-out should decide how easily I'm detected.

(I'm not trying to give any real numbers/loadout balances, just the general idea)

If I have a modest load-out: sidearm, ACE's, paperclips, rubber bands, pop rocks, jammers

Then have the median of detection, I can easily crouch move my way into place and past players, so long as I heed the "red light.... red light... GREEN LIGHT! ... RED LIGHT!" method of movement.

Without special measures, a player would need to be within 15 meters to see me crouch moving, 50 wile running, 80 sprinting.


If I have a light load-out: Knife, change of undies, beef jerky

You should have to trip and fall on me and wonder why your floating half a foot from the floor with a slow rise and fall motion accompanied by pockets of hot air. I can perform the swan dance, so long as I don't get in your direct line of sight (peripheral vision I'm safe). I will whisper things into your ear and try to act like I'm your second personality wile feeding you by hand during lunch.

If I have a heavy load-out: Novelty Clubbed foot shoes vanity customization option enabled, Decimator, Chaingun with a mounted thumper, ipod full of dubstep + over-sized headphones, grenades, more grenades, holy wind chime of grenades (my god, its like hes a Yetti and his fur is grenades!), The Grinch stole Christmas sized bag of ACE's.

At this point I should be rather noticeable, quick movements without noise dampeners will flare me up radar to anyone in earshot/augmented earshot. Even with dampeners, anyone close will still hear me.

Crouch moving is only effective against players who at least 65 yards away.
Strait up sprinting will only be effective 250+ yards away.

Using any of the larger equipment would cause the stealth to take a wile to re-establish. This, accompanied with a larger lag time between becoming completely stealthed when not moving.

[Traak]

How about cloakers being able to go completely incapable of any offensive capabilities whatsoever, and be absolutely undetectable no matter where they go or how fast; no sound, past about five feet away.

If they carry a knife, which gives them offensive capability, they are visible when running. If they carry a pistol, visible while stand-up walking or running. If they have a rifle, they are visible at all times like the screenie we saw of the snoaker.

However, if all they have is an REK and a medapp, in other words, no ACE, no ability to kill anyone or even harm them, then they are truly completely invisible.

However, they could still push someone or run into them. No damage, but you might make that guy get just that much closer to a friendly mine, (or an enemy mine, and the guy you pushed would take the brunt of its detecting you and blowing up) for example. Unarmed combat, cloaker-style.

As he ramps up his ability to hurt or kill others, with weapons or deployables, his detectability rises.

[Justaman]

The option to remove my self from listing in the kill spam. <---

Also, if I'm not in a state of "detected/detectable if someone looked in my direction", no network data on my position will being transmitted.

If I'm sprinting, but everyone is looking away from me, unless they hear me, no network data is sent to them. Which should stem the use of 3rd party methods aimed at detecting stealthers.


Load-out should decide how easily I'm detected.

If I have a modest load-out: sidearm, ACE's, w/e, pop rocks, spoon, jammers
Then have the median of detection, I can easily crouch move my way into place and past players, so long as I heed the "red light.... red light... GREEN LIGHT! ... RED LIGHT!" method of movement.

Without special measures, a player would need to be within 15 meters to see me crouch moving, 50 wile running, 80 sprinting.


If I have a light load-out: Knife, change of undies, beef jerky

You should have to trip and fall on me and wonder why your floating half a foot from the floor with a slow rise and fall motion accompanied by pockets of hot air. I can perform the swan dance, so long as I don't get in your direct line of sight (peripheral is ok). I will whisper things into your ear and try to act like I'm your second personality.

If I have a heavy load-out: Novelty Clubbed foot shoes, Decimator, Chaingun with a mounted thumper, ipod full of dubstep + over-sized headphones, grenades, more grenades, holy wind chime of grenades (my god, its like hes a Yetti and his fur is grenades!), The Grinch stole Christmas sized bag of ACE's.

At this point I should be rather noticeable, quick movements without noise dampeners will flare me up on radar to anyone in earshot/augmented earshot.

Crouch moving is only effective against players who at least 50 yards away.
Strait up sprinting will only be effective 150+ yards away.

[Helwyr]

Regarding the Darklight ideas. I was quite happy with the way it worked in PS1.

I would be against making it a rifle attachment for a couple of reasons.

One, as an implant you're generally sacrificing having some other real cool ability by having Darklight, and it's a lot easier to switch a load out than it is to change an implant. Thus, meaning implants result in less people using Darklight than weapon attachments.

Two, Darklight isn't just used to detect cloakers. I used it extensively when driving an ATV to detect mines.

[Xyntech]

Originally Posted by Helwyr

Regarding the Darklight ideas. I was quite happy with the way it worked in PS1.

I would be against making it a rifle attachment for a couple of reasons.

One, as an implant you're generally sacrificing having some other real cool ability by having Darklight, and it's a lot easier to switch a load out than it is to change an implant. Thus, meaning implants result in less people using Darklight than weapon attachments.

Two, Darklight isn't just used to detect cloakers. I used it extensively when driving an ATV to detect mines.

We don't know how PS2's equivalent of implants will work, but at the moment I would assume they will be changed along with the rest of your loadout when you respawn.

Darklight may have worked fine in PS1, except for the fact that it was a tool that took away a cloakers only advantage.

Cloakers had shitty inventory space, couldn't use anything larger than a pistol and had worse armor/health than PJ's. Their big advantage? You can't see them. Except that you can see them when they are moving or are firing a weapon. Most people could spot a moving cloaker with a little practice, no darklight needed.

With Darklight, that invisibility advantage goes completely out the window. Should we also have an implant that makes snipers bullets disintegrate after 100m? One that makes AA and Strikers unable to achieve lockon?

It just seems weird to me to take away their entire advantage with a single implant slot. The trade off should either be higher, or the ability to use darklight should be limited. Wanna use a MAX? Then find and kill cloakers the old fashioned way.

Way too many people had Darklight in Planetside. Cloakers deserve better.

I was never much of a cloaker in PS1 and I don't particularly plan on being one very often in PS2, but that shit with darklight was ridiculous. I'm a pilot, so I sure as hell don't want anybody to get an implant that makes me drop out of the sky every time they look at me with it activated.

Of course we don't currently know all of the ins and outs of PS2's cloaking system. It may be radically different from PS1. There may be no such thing as and no need for anything like Darklight in PS2.