Larger Crew Vehicles, Good or Bad?

[Canaris]

They won't have buggies like the Marauder or Thresher ready for release but I see that as an opportunity, if I could steal one feature from another FPS when it comes to passanger vehicles it would be APB's ability to have passangers slip out the window for drive by gunning.

Even if the player isn't in the machine gun section of the buggy or transport they can still use their pistol or assault rifle. They would attackable when in this position, even more so if they take a tank shell or AV weapon hit, vehicle takes the same damage but the person would be killed depending on the round.

Could you imagine a 5 man Marauder....... YEEEEEHAAAAAAWWWWW!!!!

[CutterJohn]

I can't imagine how leaning out the window of a fast moving vehicle would be effective. It doesn't even work in the BF games, which have an even faster ttk than PS will.

Plus, of course, it brings up the quite severe issue of EMPs being shot from the vehicle, which would just be completely overpowered.

Firing port weapons would be fine to give them something to do rather than sit, but frankly nobody will want to be a passenger, same as PS1, and with the increased mobility options, far fewer will ever need to.

[SKYeXile]

Originally Posted by Azren

You really are the lowest kind possible. Asking anyone to commit suicide, especially for such a meaningless reason can not be excused in any context. Do you think it is cool to talk/write such things?

He never said commit suicide, just stab yourself in the neck, sure it could lead to a fatal death, the inabilty to talk, or leave you more retarded, but for anybody who loves BFR's...is it really a bad thing?

[Figment]

Originally Posted by Canaris

Could you imagine a 5 man Marauder....... YEEEEEHAAAAAAWWWWW!!!!

Imagine I could imagine it, could you imagine why you would opt for this over more regular troop transports (ES APCs) or more likely, give each player his own vehicle?

Tbh, I can only come up with SEVERELY restricted (and I mean by far more stringent than PS1) acquisition rules and locations, forcing you to get the crappiest option in terms of man and fire power that is locally available.

But then there is instant action spawning... >.>

[Azren]

Originally Posted by SKYeXile

He never said commit suicide, just stab yourself in the neck, sure it could lead to a fatal death, the inabilty to talk, or leave you more retarded, but for anybody who loves BFR's...is it really a bad thing?

You can't be serious. There are some things you just don't joke about, this is one of them.

[SKYeXile]

Originally Posted by Azren

You can't be serious. There are some things you just don't joke about, this is one of them.

You must be new here.

Hi Azren,

i'm SKYeXile, Council member of Future Crew & GM of TRF, amazing killwhore, elitst jerk and forum troll guy. I recruited Darkfate to Future Crew when he was searching for a purpose and somebody to love and to hold him, while we may not love Darkfate mentally, we sure do love him physically. Over the years I have taken a backseat from trolling and the face of Future Crew and more or less passed the "torch" onto Darkfate. So he willbe trolling you now, not that he was really trying...its a tallent, a gift we have.

While nobody is serious about having somebody kill themselves over a video game, the game would surly be better without the BFR lovers and overpowered shit.

[Captain1nsaneo]

Originally Posted by SKYeXile

You must be new here.

Hi Azren,

i'm SKYeXile, Council member of Future Crew & GM of TRF, amazing killwhore, elitst jerk and forum troll guy. I recruited Darkfate to Future Crew when he was searching for a purpose and somebody to love and to hold him, while we may not love Darkfate mentally, we sure do love him physically. Over the years I have taken a backseat from trolling and the face of Future Crew and more or less passed the "torch" onto Darkfate. So he willbe trolling you now, not that he was really trying...its a tallent, a gift we have.

While nobody is serious about having somebody kill themselves over a video game, the game would surly be better without the BFR lovers and overpowered shit.

Hi SKYeXile,

I'm Captain1nsaneo, former outfitleader of The Final Stand-J. Azren was an officer under me.

Lay off ma' boy.

If you're going to talk about BFRs at least talk about the version that's been on the live server inside the last year. I stopped hating surgile's when they were removed, no need to keep hating something that's no longer OP.

[Azren]

Originally Posted by SKYeXile

You must be new here.

[...]

While nobody is serious about having somebody kill themselves over a video game, the game would surly be better without the BFR lovers and overpowered shit.

Yes, I'm new. Only started recently, in beta...

Serious or not, this is not a topic to make fun of.

I do not know why you bring BFRs up. The topic was about gunships being OP. BFRs are not multi crew vehicles, so they really don't matter here.

[Sirisian]

Originally Posted by GuvNuh

Saw someone post a picture of the German Landkreuzer prototype for a TR tank suggestion, and yeah, i'd like to see something like that, taking a full dozen people to man effectively, with a bunch of turrets and stuff on it's deck to man.

I don't think it could work. There's a problem with multi-crew vehicles in that they can only really fight other multi-crew vehicles since the mentality is that more people equals more health. So with your "full dozen people" you'd be looking at a vehicle with a lot of health. So much so that no one even attempts to shoot at it much since people will just assume it'll go away for repairs. This was a problem with a fully manned gunship. Devastatingly effective with so much health that you'd just cross your fingers for the kill while shooting it hoping it wasn't going to just go away and come back at full health.

In regards to balanced and fun multi-crew vehicles I'd want the largest to be 3 people where each has specific roles that are fun and make up for the vehicle's weaknesses without limiting its primary role. Then extra passengers with guns.

For instance, the liberator in the original was a bomber. The version I'd prefer would be where the driver drops dumb bombs and a co-pilot controls bombs after they drop with a laser and controls the tail gun as a secondary weapon.

I've never thought of a good system for the buggies. Three people with a gun of some kind. I'd go on the side of letting two people use their own gun with the driver optionally controlling a gun (right clicking to release control to the secondary that can right click to release control to the tertiary passenger). Then allow the option for the person in the back to use a max while standing up. Balancing such a system seems impractical though with many limitations for weapons or max types.

As for medium/heavy transport I'd go with 3 person and driver with 2 gunners then let people (4 to 6) sit on the outside with shields on the left and right side with gun limitations allowing them to jump off at any point. Allow the shields to take a few hits from a tank, but turn off if they take too much damage.

Also one thing I'd like to see separate medium and heavy transport would be resources honestly. I wouldn't mind if I went to a terminal and saw that medium is cheap to pull and heavy was a few resources. I've played the game long enough to use both in an outfit, but the incentive wasn't there to use them. (I've never uncerted air cav so I always had my liberator or galaxy for quick transportation making the ground transports look like a hassle). I noticed Higby said the new transports have gun ports for firing your own weapons so it should be a more interesting experience for all the passengers this time.

I'd also enjoy a more nimble slim galaxy with 7 seats, 3 on each side with a driver for up to reinforced) for just quick transport to fly into a base and bail quickly without the overhead of a galaxy or the defense. (Imagine a mosquito thin vehicle with seats on the side like on a roller coaster where players just run up and strap in, doesn't need an animation if that is too much work). Those kinds of multi-crewed vehicles would be a nice sight for small organized squads instead of including a phantasm.

[Canaris]

Originally Posted by CutterJohn

I can't imagine how leaning out the window of a fast moving vehicle would be effective. It doesn't even work in the BF games, which have an even faster ttk than PS will.

because that was an after thought addition not a feature, you make it a feature and it will work.

Also you guys need to lighten up, like a mortuary in here the last while

[Azren]

Originally Posted by Sirisian

Also one thing I'd like to see separate medium and heavy transport would be resources honestly. I wouldn't mind if I went to a terminal and saw that medium is cheap to pull and heavy was a few resources. I've played the game long enough to use both in an outfit, but the incentive wasn't there to use them. (I've never uncerted air cav so I always had my liberator or galaxy for quick transportation making the ground transports look like a hassle). I noticed Higby said the new transports have gun ports for firing your own weapons so it should be a more interesting experience for all the passengers this time.

I doubt transports will ever get used, unless they double as spawn points or mobile resupply bases. The reason is the very same you stated; why bother with slow moving mass transport if you can just pull aircav?

This is how ps1 works, and will be much worse in ps2, where you don't need to put any points in a tech to use it. Onces you unlock it, that's it, you can use it whenever you want.

I for one plan to unlock all vehicles at the getgo, and surely others will do so too.

[Sirisian]

Originally Posted by Azren

I doubt transports will ever get used, unless they double as spawn points or mobile resupply bases. The reason is the very same you stated; why bother with slow moving mass transport if you can just pull aircav?

This is how ps1 works, and will be much worse in ps2, where you don't need to put any points in a tech to use it. Onces you unlock it, that's it, you can use it whenever you want.

I for one plan to unlock all vehicles at the getgo, and surely others will do so too.

I'm still holding out hope that certain vehicles will have a resource charge along with their normal upgrades. I know a few people here have played the new Tribes games. Their system is amazing for this. You play for a bit then go to a terminal to spend your credits for a vehicle. Some vehicles are cheap on some maps so you can pull them over and over, like the gravcycle, but others take some play-time, like the tank in the game. This would make pulling an ATV a logical choice over say a tank since you'd grunt for a bit then look at your choices for if you want to grunt more or use a vehicle rather than then pull a vehicle every spawn that got a bit repetitive and turned all vehicles into quick throwaways.

The only big problem though is it encourages players to hold onto vehicles and retreat often which could slow down the game a bit. I noticed in Tribes players with the tank, myself included, sit back and rack up easy kills instead of pushing forward for fear of losing an investment.

[Figment]

Originally Posted by Azren

Yes, I'm new. Only started recently, in beta...

Serious or not, this is not a topic to make fun of.

I do not know why you bring BFRs up. The topic was about gunships being OP. BFRs are not multi crew vehicles, so they really don't matter here.

Actually they are multi-crew vehicles, as the GV is a two crew vehicle and the most powerful two crew vehicle we had in PS at that. Already powerful with just one person as it had health and shield (staying power) for far more than would suffice for a two crew vehicle.

Compare it to an old and new Sunderer, which had respectively just a bit more and eventually approximately twice the armour (hitpoints) of a Vanguard iirc. I often drove a Sundy alone in a courtyard, driving over people, EMP blasting mine fields, generally distracting and of course horn blowing. Took quite a few enemies of off firing at other people just to kill this one guy without gunners.

My record is 8 laps through a somewhat full TR held friendly CY without much CE (Prowlers, Reavers etc all EMP blasted thrice). Basically stalled the advance into the base.

[CutterJohn]

Originally Posted by Sirisian

I don't think it could work. There's a problem with multi-crew vehicles in that they can only really fight other multi-crew vehicles since the mentality is that more people equals more health. So with your "full dozen people" you'd be looking at a vehicle with a lot of health. So much so that no one even attempts to shoot at it much since people will just assume it'll go away for repairs.

Every point of damage you do to it = 1xp. Now everyone wants to shoot at it. Oh, and the sizeable bonus for killing it, to make sure people don't try to leave it alive.

But yeah, problem solved.

Originally Posted by Canaris

because that was an after thought addition not a feature, you make it a feature and it will work.

Also you guys need to lighten up, like a mortuary in here the last while

I'm a Dilbert. My role is to tell everyone why their ideas are horrible.

[Azren]

Originally Posted by Figment

Actually they are multi-crew vehicles, as the GV is a two crew vehicle and the most powerful two crew vehicle we had in PS at that. Already powerful with just one person as it had health and shield (staying power) for far more than would suffice for a two crew vehicle.

When I said multi, I meant 3+. Vehicles like the GG, sundy, deli are the topic here.

At any rate, it is not rare to see those BFRs doing solo action, they don't really _need_ a gunner.