Another 'Battlefield 3'

[Skitrel]

Originally Posted by TOCS

I can't be specific when I haven't played the games before. This thread is directed mostly at those who knows the situation with Battlefield 3, and how the fans had to accept the new game.

That's hilarious. Ok then, allow me to give an alternative picture to the clearly one sided and false picture you've got in your mind. BF3 is still Battlefield, it's a good game, yes it's got 3D spotting in it whereas BF2 didn't, and yes the UI isn't up to scratch compared with older iterations of the series, the differences between the games end there though.

Never, EVER, listen to what the noisy raging mob online says, it's inherently wrong by being a mob in that it doesn't think for itself, it just follows what everyone else is saying.

The game is an excellent game, the game isn't disappointing and it really hasn't hurt fan at all, a small section have blown minor issues up into catastrophic things that really aren't bad at all and the game suffered from a buggy release due to needing to get it out the door. It however is certainly a Battlefield game, and a phenomenal game all round.

There is a lot of EA hate right now, there are many naysayers that jump on bandwagons in gaming purely for the excitement and drama. They gravitate to drama like flies to shit.

Do not listen to them, do not be swayed by a noisy mob. There is almost always only negative opinion in online discussion of games with respect to casualisations and so on, the people that enjoy the game have better things to do than participate, such as playing the games, as a result the negativity tends to run rampant.

The next Battlefield game, more than like 2143 will certainly sell more than BF3, and those same idiots will still pay for it and play it. People will moan all the same. Ignore it.

dm Akolyte, Ironmole is successfully baiting and trolling you into an emotional reaction, it's what he lives for on these forums, let it go.

[Biohazard]

Originally Posted by Stardouser

3D spotting, audiospotting, killcam, no in-game VOIP unless you are a PS3 player, non-functional commo rose, small meatgrind maps with no true tactical or strategic aspects, watered down vehicle play, the list goes on and on.

3D spotting , killcam - not a fan.
no in-game voip unless PS3 - I can agree this was a bad decision
small meatgrind maps - almost on par with the first floor tower rape
watered down vehicle play - I enjoy the vehicle gameplay

[rant]
I have been a fan of battlefield for a long time, all the way back to 1942. I enjoy BF3, the gunplay feels wonderful, the sound engine is outstanding, the graphics are beautiful.
I am happy that PS2 is taking some hints from BF3, it is a good shooter. The actual shooter portion of PS1 was HORRIBLE, but when I think of planetside, the first thing I think of the the VS, MY TEAM. No other FPS has made me feel committed to a team like that. The persistence of team and territory is what makes Planetside awesome, even in the face of modern shooters.
[/rant]

[Shogun]

wow, another thread where some idiot calls everyone an idiot who doesn´t have the same opinion...

when you´re living in a glasshouse, screw the goat in the cellar!

bf3 was dumbed down and a lot of bf veterans are pissed about this. it´s a legit opinion and i can understand this even as a non bf veteran.
a lot of us ps fans have the fear that this will happen to our game as well, but personally i hope we will get the chance to change some things back during beta, if things turn out to be too casual.
yes i use the word casual as an opposite to tactical. round based shorttime games like bf3 are casual. you can play for 30 mins and leave. in ps1 playing for 30 mins was almost useless. typical playsessions lasted for several hours. that´s not casual.

[Stardouser]

Originally Posted by dm Akolyte

No. I'm really not. I don't think your personal preferences are dumb. I think they are your personal preferences.

I'm not the one accusing other games in the franchise of being "dumbed down." That would be you guys. In responding to specific points, I was illustrating how just because YOU or someone else dislikes a gameplay decision, doesn't mean it's a result of dumbing down.




"Dumbing down is a pejorative term for a perceived trend to lower the intellectual content of literature, education, news, and other aspects of culture."

So yes, actually, calling something dumbed down exactly IS an attack on the intelligence of something.

You don't like many of the decisions DICE made with BF3 and are upset that its become so popular, validating their divergence from your preferred gameplay. That's understandable--I get it.

What I'm objecting to is the MASSIVE undertone that you and your peers have that smart, REAL gamers will obviously prefer the gameplay of previous incarnations of battlefield, what that is simply not the case. Your attitude is extremely condescending, and if you actually hope to have people listen to your points, I suggest you fix it.

There are varying definitions of dumbing down. It has become the parlance used in this situation, if it's offensive, that can't be helped. All I can say it that is not the manner in which I use it.

But let's back up here and simply state that BF vets, at least all the ones I know, believe that BF3's features represent several macro issues:
1. An increase in game pace to the point where fighting is non-stop, there is neither need, nor time, to think about your squad's next move. Mostly this is caused by small map size, but 3D spotting and other things also help, because, for example, 3D spots cause people to be shooting at you from across the map that normally wouldn't even see you, which contributes to the non-stop fighting.
2. Loss of sandbox tactics
3. Loss of team tools

And here are the two real problems:
1. We are not out on some mission to prevent people that like this kind of gameplay from getting what they want, but we BF2 vets waited 6 years for a sequel, and BF3 isn't it. And most likely, Battlefield will never be like it was again. That means that unless another game is found, we're done.
2. And Planetside could be that game. Map size alone could alleviate many of the issues, but not completely. Considering that we lost the Battlefield, are we really that evil for not wanting the meatgrind philosophy to come to Planetside? I don't care if there are 100 games that copy Battlefield 3 and CoD, so long as there's one that meets our needs.

[Shanesan]

Originally Posted by dm Akolyte

No. I'm really not. I don't think your personal preferences are dumb. I think they are your personal preferences.

I'm not the one accusing other games in the franchise of being "dumbed down." That would be you guys. In responding to specific points, I was illustrating how just because YOU or someone else dislikes a gameplay decision, doesn't mean it's a result of dumbing down.

Maybe I can explain this better. DICE took a game franchise with very specific, unique features in it, and got rid of them in order to dress itself up more like a different game from a different company.

People who liked the gameplay elements, and thusly the franchise, have been effectively banished from the franchise that they helped build up with their monetary contributions.

Does that make more sense?

[Gonefshn]

Originally Posted by Stardouser

2. And Planetside could be that game. Map size alone could alleviate many of the issues, but not completely. Considering that we lost the Battlefield, are we really that evil for not wanting the meatgrind philosophy to come to Planetside? I don't care if there are 100 games that copy Battlefield 3 and CoD, so long as there's one that meets our needs.

I think from what we have seen so far part of what will make PS2 great is the option for both types of gameplay. Squad spawning and forward bases will allow players who want to get right into the action the chance to do so. And players who want to think and plan their actions have other options to set up bases and spawn points of there own. This will allow CoD gamers to get the constant gunplay they love, and tactical players to come into those situations at there own pace with any amount of strategic depth they desire.

This is the hope anyway.

[Owalpo]

I always find it funny when gamers complain when a sequel or spiritual successor of a game is not exactly like the one before.

If you want that game go play it.

"But I can't barely no one plays any more!"

I wonder why...


Edit: After reading more of the post here. Lmao, really? "Graphics is all BF3 has going for it, but graphics mean shit when the game sucks..."

If you don't care about graphics go play BF2!

[Skitrel]

Originally Posted by Shogun

wow, another thread where some idiot calls everyone an idiot who doesn´t have the same opinion...

when you´re living in a glasshouse, screw the goat in the cellar!

bf3 was dumbed down and a lot of bf veterans are pissed about this. it´s a legit opinion and i can understand this even as a non bf veteran.
a lot of us ps fans have the fear that this will happen to our game as well, but personally i hope we will get the chance to change some things back during beta, if things turn out to be too casual.
yes i use the word casual as an opposite to tactical. round based shorttime games like bf3 are casual. you can play for 30 mins and leave. in ps1 playing for 30 mins was almost useless. typical playsessions lasted for several hours. that´s not casual.

I'll call you anyone I like an idiot if they make bland generalised statements with zero specifics. You want to do this, let's do it.

Dumbed down. Specify. The only real "dumbing down" that can be brought up with BF3 is the addition of 3D spotting, which really doesn't change gameplay that much at all.

[Zulthus]

Originally Posted by Shogun

wow, another thread where some idiot calls everyone an idiot who doesn´t have the same opinion...

when you´re living in a glasshouse, screw the goat in the cellar!

bf3 was dumbed down and a lot of bf veterans are pissed about this. it´s a legit opinion and i can understand this even as a non bf veteran.
a lot of us ps fans have the fear that this will happen to our game as well, but personally i hope we will get the chance to change some things back during beta, if things turn out to be too casual.
yes i use the word casual as an opposite to tactical. round based shorttime games like bf3 are casual. you can play for 30 mins and leave. in ps1 playing for 30 mins was almost useless. typical playsessions lasted for several hours. that´s not casual.

He does it in every thread. It's nothing new now and we all just go with it. We can tell he's never played BF3 before as the only thing he calls 'dumbed down' is 3d spotting.

[Owalpo]

Originally Posted by Shogun

yes i use the word casual as an opposite to tactical. round based shorttime games like bf3 are casual. you can play for 30 mins and leave. in ps1 playing for 30 mins was almost useless. typical playsessions lasted for several hours. that´s not casual.

SO pretty much every game out there is casual? I will be sure to bring that up in the next Dark Souls meeting.



Also you can play Planetside for half an hour and get stuff done just did. On cy got into a bomber and took some guys off of a wall of a base which got capped. I guess its casual now...shit.

[Figment]

Originally Posted by dm Akolyte

Okay, teamwork tools are a legitimate complaint, I'll give you that. The rest are YOUR personal preference. Calling it dumbed down is just stupid video game hipster bullshit. as people around here have been quoting "STOP LIKING WHAT I DON'T LIKE".

Just to check, aren't you kinda saying "START LIKING WHAT I LIKE"?

>.>

<.<

Just checking.



PS: Never played BF3 myself, I didn't like most other BF games nor MW games... They were... too simple. I mean the single players were challenging enough for a single player, but I simply came to hate the type of instances. :/ The only online FPS that really drew me was PS because of the scale and options for different gameplay, strategies and tactics that didn't end up with "run around the map like a headless chicken without any sense of capturing territory" (MW) or spawncamping of BF. Mini-map games and small-medium multiplayer games always kind off... disappointed after PS.

Similarly with WoT, it feels so cramped and artificial in comparison to PS vehicle combat. Hence why I'm going to miss a lot of niche vehicles and players having specific roles in PS as well. It does feel rather dumbed down to me to make everything always accesible to everyone. It reduces the teamplay element, it reduces the amount of inventiveness you need to have with the tools you have, rather than going for the defaults for every fight. That sort of thing. Even with the customization, I mean, that's nice and all, but it's not going to "replace" other vehicles, even if it does replace the role. If you catch my drift.

I'm afraid PS2 is going to feel somewhat forced and less emersive in gameplay. Forced as in... for instance you have to continue fighting on the same map, since you can't actually push people off it. You can't actually win and it's not because you can't be better, but because you're not allowed to by game design. Now, I'd be fine with that if the maps were 100 x 100 square kms, but on 8x8 - 10x10 square km maps, an enemy sanc is going to be a minute or three away from you continuously. I fear it's going to feel as if your fighting a global fight over a couple city blocks. :/

[IronMole]

Originally Posted by Owalpo

SO pretty much every game out there is casual? I will be sure to bring that up in the next Dark Souls meeting.



Also you can play Planetside for half an hour and get stuff done just did. On cy got into a bomber and took some guys off of a wall of a base which got capped. I guess its casual now...shit.

Considering the low pops, yes.

Go do that when it was prime, probably not even made a dent...

[Vash02]

Originally Posted by Top Sgt

it cracks me up that dice can take out/Leave out so many PC specific things in BF3 that 5+ year old BF games had way back then.

Completely noob up the game and people think it's a marval and so well done lol

The game looks pretty but is a PC game bust. total console downgraded effort.. but the drones bought their selling pitch.

I think because this game will be PC only it'll be safe from being dummed down... but if it ever goes multiplatform.. it'll be another BF all over again.

They will probably port PS2 to the playstation 4 when it comes out. Smedley refused to comment on that when asked.

[Owalpo]

Originally Posted by IronMole

Considering the low pops, yes.

Go do that when it was prime, probably not even made a dent...

My point is:

Time doesn't make a game hardcore.

[WildGunsTomcat]

Call of Duty: Battlefield 3 sucked.

It was nothing like Battlefield 2...which was an amazing game.

Dice tried to emulate COD too much...and made a turd.

/thread