Gun Combat= No movement, very stationary when shooting

[ringring]

The thing I am wondering about is:

will faster ttk ironically slow down the pace of the game?

I mean, in ps now if you go around that corner over there there might be an enemy there, but if there is you have a fairly good chance of winning out and while first shot is important (after triple shot was removed) you can still win ....

Now, with shorter ttk, first shot will be more important added to this, no 3rd person so you can't peek first.

I suppose the alternative (bad outcome) is that it encourages "rush, charge, die, spawn" rinse+repeat

[captainkapautz]

Originally Posted by ringring

I suppose the alternative (bad outcome) is that it encourages "rush, charge, die, spawn" rinse+repeat

Not anymore than PS1 did.

[ringring]

Originally Posted by captainkapautz

Not anymore than PS1 did.

It's funny but it's often the opposite that people complained about in PS1, ie people wouldn't push the stairways for fear of being killed.

And that is the nub of my question.

Speaking for myself .... if ttk's are quicker and I suspect an enemy is around the corner I'd wait for him to expose himself first (or her). The shorter the ttk the more likely I think I'd wait. ... ... The person with patience wins, kind of thing.

[Talek Krell]

The extent to which it is not appropriate to draw these conclusions from the very short, very pre-alpha footage we have been given boggles the mind almost as much as the wording of this poll.

[The noob]

Originally Posted by Talek Krell

The extent to which it is not appropriate to draw these conclusions from the very short, very pre-alpha footage we have been given boggles the mind almost as much as the wording of this poll.

Agreed, it's very difficult to really judge the gunplay and gameplay and how playstyles will revolve around it from just watching it, especially when you only have people running around aimlessly shooting each other. The only sure-fire way of knowing, is to play it ourselves, and see how the mechanics feel.

[Stew]

Originally Posted by Dreamcast

So I been comparing this game for killzone 2 for a while...One thing they have in common is the fact how stationary targets are when they shoot.



All the planetside 2 footage shows people standing shooting at eachother or just moving forward shooting.


I don't see people moving side to side at all which is something the original planetside had and a couple of other games futuristic games have....

I guess it can be attributed to lower TTK but other games like COD(inb4 the elitist) that have way lower ttk, actually have alot of side movement and overall movement when shooting.


So do you guys like this minimal movement when shooting?....I guess it means accuracy is very important so is not good to move and shoot....It could also mean that the A and D movement keys move slow to either right or left direction.


I like killzone 2 so is not a big problem for me but knowing how Planetside 1 was, with people moving side to side when they shot....it kind of makes me think if it will be best if their was more movement.




Cliff notes

A and D key movements seem non existant in planetside 2
W and S key movements seem to be very minimal

The thing u must understand is that people who act like (( stationary )) target are some QA or Dev who are NOOBS at FPS games !

Lets take a player like higby or some few onthers in the team and they will not be free kill stationary target The Noobs not mooving target are people who play like thats its not a limitation of the game mechanics its a player limitation And BTW killzone 2 and 3 was a very fast pace game for those who was good at it !

Skills limitation Not game mechanics ones

[captainkapautz]

Originally Posted by ringring

Speaking for myself .... if ttk's are quicker and I suspect an enemy is around the corner I'd wait for him to expose himself first (or her). The shorter the ttk the more likely I think I'd wait. ... ... The person with patience wins, kind of thing.

As long as we're granted enough tactical tools, like flashbang, smokegrenades, maybe deployable shields, etc. it should be fine.

[Toppopia]

Originally Posted by captainkapautz

As long as we're granted enough tactical tools, like flashbang, smokegrenades, maybe deployable shields, etc. it should be fine.

Hmm, we havn't heard anything about that kind of stuff... I hope we can use flash bangs, allows an awesome squad style breaching and entering a base with flash bangs in every room. I can imagine it now. But then everyone will complain about it in some way or another.

[captainkapautz]

We have actually, IIRC Higby mentioned different grenades, namedropped atleast emp (jammer), also said about maybe making some of 'em classspecific, like emp being engineer and infiltrator only.

[mynameismud]

its topics like these that make me glad we wont be making these decisions. seriously...this topic makes me sad.

[Rumblepit]

2 other things to take into consideration,

weapon mods being the first. players will be able to increase a weapons rof if the choose to sacrifice accuracy. this being the case you will probably see many light assaults with smgs hip shooting while on the move.this will be a very effective tactic because,,, here the second, when games have cof and recoil based combat the guns cof is effected very little while moving. the skill in shooting while on the move with these features comes from controlling your recoil ,leading your target and compensating for his movements,yours, and bullet drop. once mastered people can rush ftw. but thats if you favor this style of combat. im no point man, and i dont like cqc fights so this wont be for me. but im guessing alot of the ps1 vets will pick up this tactic because it will be the closes thing to ps1 combat.

[goneglockin]

Originally Posted by Rbstr

So, requiring people to think about the trade off of aiming vs running and gunning is "dumbed down" compared to Halo-style run around and shoot?

Different skills sets are not the same thing as dumbed own.
It's like calling chess dumbed down checkers because the Queen can move anywhere.

Right on. Old skool shooters required you be able to walk and chew gum, to move and shoot as one.

Consolization of shooters decided walking and chewing gum was too much for your average xbawks gamer. And so here we are today, with people actually discussing the modern shooter like it's anything but a complete joke and using phrases for game mechanics that should be banned from video game forums such as "in real life."

Honestly makes my blood boil. People have no frame of reference any more/don't remember what made shooting games fun in the first place. I find them pretty boring now on average. Not competitive at all.

[Checowsky]

I'm no fan of this no movement shooting business, I prefer lots of movement in combat to keep a nice flow going rather than 'stop to shoot one guy, get shot while doing it' which I imagine will happen a lot in an MMO....

Either way I don't think this will stop that gameplay style at all. PS1 awarded people who crouched and didn't move all the time, your CoF would go huge if you moved with certain guns but that stopped no-one from doing it. I don't think changing the system will stop it happening at all, but I think a system built around it would be much more fun.

[AlienTwentyFour]

I think it should be a lil faster. You should definately get penalized for moving while shooting. I say a slight accuracy deduction is in order.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but in the videos when the devs and TotalHalibut were sprinting, I didn't see them shooting while sprinting. So I think the this means you can't run fast and shoot at the same time.

[Bromaxulon]

Originally Posted by goneglockin

Right on. Old skool shooters required you be able to walk and chew gum, to move and shoot as one.

Consolization of shooters decided walking and chewing gum was too much for your average xbawks gamer. And so here we are today, with people actually discussing the modern shooter like it's anything but a complete joke and using phrases for game mechanics that should be banned from video game forums such as "in real life."

Honestly makes my blood boil. People have no frame of reference any more/don't remember what made shooting games fun in the first place. I find them pretty boring now on average. Not competitive at all.

The whole realism thing stems from suspension of disbelief, if objects in your game act like they do in RL then it is easier to maintain the immersion factor.

Secondly, the games that you used to run and gun in( ie unreal tourney.. One of my favorites.. I have many though ) had weapons that lacked recoil. So with more modern shooters the shooting skill set moves from tracking a target with a lot of z axis movement to controlling you weapon. Both are challenging in their own right, but I personally prefer the newer version, weapons are more visceral an provide better player feedback when fired making them more immersive. It feels more like your firing a weapon rather then having God beams blast out of your forehead.

Long story short/comment on thread theme... The changes from lower ttk to what have you don't dumb down games, they simply require different twitch styles and tactical considerations.

No recoil jumpy madness vs I wanna be an armc chair soldier.... Both fun / need different approaches.