New NC AV Max One Shots Infantry

[almalino]

Originally Posted by psijaka

The important issue is of course that the Raven should not be a 2 hit kill in the first place.

But those are so slow and difficult to curve properly that you will never hit moving infantry with those. I had difficulties even to hit not moving infantry from 100 meters if curving is needed. Rockets always lend behind the target. Still nerf required?

[HiroshiChugi]

Well all I know is that I'm happy to finally have an EFFECTIVE AV weapon for my MAX. I faced a Prowler two days ago, hit it once with a Falcon, and 2 clips of the Raven and brought it down to 1/3 health. It really made me wish that I had bought 2 Ravens.

[psijaka]

Originally Posted by almalino

But those are so slow and difficult to curve properly that you will never hit moving infantry with those. I had difficulties even to hit not moving infantry from 100 meters if curving is needed. Rockets always lend behind the target. Still nerf required?

Against infantry, yes.

Compare the Raven with the Falcon.

Falcon is a 2 hit, or one salvo kill, but:
Slower rate of fire than the Raven.
Less ammo.
Ballistic drop to compensate for.
Cone of fire becomes significant at long range.
Round divergeance becomes significant at long range.
Easier to miss your target at close range.

Now the Raven:
Faster RoF.
More ammo.
More than one round in the mag.
Laser guided so possible to snipe targets at long range.
More likely to hit target at close range.

This last point needs more explanation; if you fire a Falcon at say 2-3m range, aimed at someone's chest, the rounds go either side of the target because the weapons are so widely spaced and the aim is set to converge at medium range. Whereas if you fire a Raven at the same range, you get the hit; the guidance system seems to be able to adjust your aim unless you are right next to the target. Test it out in VR to confirm that this is the case.

The Falcon does have some plus points though.
High damage means that it is a guaranteed 2HK against infantry, even if they have full nanoweave.
High damage, unguided projectiles means that it is possible to duck in and out of cover between rounds; invaluable when you are taking fire or tackling a tank at close range.


Do you still think thar the Raven should be a "one salvo" kill against infantry? And remember that it is an AV weapon before answering.

Anyway, I'm not buying Ravens until they sort the balancing out.

[Whiteagle]

Originally Posted by HiroshiChugi

Well all I know is that I'm happy to finally have an EFFECTIVE AV weapon for my MAX. I faced a Prowler two days ago, hit it once with a Falcon, and 2 clips of the Raven and brought it down to 1/3 health. It really made me wish that I had bought 2 Ravens.

Ha ha! Good one...

...Oh wait, you're serious?

BWAH-HA-HA-HA!!!!

[Frotang]

Originally Posted by Tom Peters

This is specifically about the new AV versus infantry.

And regardless of that, those are just total kills, it doesn't tell much. But it does show the infantry to vehicle destroyed ratios, which is higher for the Ravens, meaning they rape infantry.

And the Fractures dont rape infantry? The vehicle to kill ratio is meaningless bc you have no idea if its just an empty flash or something. The telling sign that Fracture is op against infantry is the time played to kill ratio. Fractures racked up over double the kills that the Raven did, and it was done in less time, over 200hrs less time. Im all for nerfing both vs infantry but dont act like the Fractures arent the king of AV killing infantry, bc they are right now

[mrmrmrj]

Originally Posted by Tom Peters

And regardless of that, those are just total kills, it doesn't tell much. But it does show the infantry to vehicle destroyed ratios, which is higher for the Ravens, meaning they rape infantry.

You are looking at it backwards. The data indicates the opposite. The Fracture has more total kills per vehicle killed than the Raven, 2.16 vs 1.94. The Raven is mathematically WORSE at killing infantry using the stats cited if one assumes the number of occupants per vehicle killed is constant.

[Canaris]

hence the reason the infantry shields would benefit from having more resistance to AV damage as a whole, all of them are vicious vs infantry.
Shields up = mitigated somewhat
shields down = tough titty

[DirtyBird]

I bought the Ravens and I'm not that impressed with them for AV or AI purposes.
One good thing with them is you can kill infantry in that dead zone.
I would not recommend buying them as they currently are unless thats all you want them for.
When mastered they could be lethal indoors and we might hear plenty of nerf noise akin the the Hacksaw MAX if they become more prevalent.

But once you have targets moving around with some range the Raven is exposed as a mediocre weapon with a fantastic reload animation.
Its all well and good shooting in a sterile environment like the VR with stationary targets but thats nothing like what you'll be up against outside of there.
It is not easy hitting infantry at range with them unless they remain stationary ie. Turret Monkeys or Snipers.

Verses vehicles I still think that on its own its very weak unless your target is afk.
I also think their indirect damage is currently too low at but they went nerf happy on all the NC AV weapons with that.

NC HA Phoenix users should be happy the the TR and VS dont have the Ravens (tho the Fracture might do just as well, even better).


I still irks me what they have done to the original Falcons, I miss the way they were.
Those current flaming orbs they fire are slower than an old mole at a christening.
From the other MAX thread the Falcons are meant to now be 300RPM & 100m/s and the Ravens I think are 48RPM & 85m/s. But the Falcon is clearly slower than the Raven.
They either mixed up the speeds or the tool tip data yet again, the RPM is probably wrong as well.
The fact the Falcon couldn't hit infantry up close without some practice was a good trade off imo.
Higby wants them to be used in say a court yard stand off vs vehicles, I can tell you now who will win that showdown.
If I have to stand there for eternity waiting for my halleys comets to hit I wont last long vs armor.

I kind of feel with the Raven and Falcon we are still in testing mode with them.
Both of them feel unfinished now and taking away that OSK from them would render them useless imo. Unless the AV side got a decent buff.


A test for dual Raven owners.
For those of you that have dual Ravens and are able to take video footage, unlike my shitty video capture system that is always exceeding its memory limit ffs, try the following.
Equip your Ravens in the Warpgate and move to the door way on the left or right of the spawn room and fire them both straight out a few times.
Now walk out to the railing and fire both again.
Notice any difference?

[psijaka]

Originally Posted by DirtyBird

One good thing with them is you can kill infantry in that dead zone.

That's the phrase I was looking for!

[Root Hade]

Would be neat if there were inherent mechanics instead of damage nerfs that kept a weapon specific to ground, air or infantry or whatever. Like what if the rockets were basically timed sticky nades, so they'd give infantry time to disperse but still lock down vehicles in some way. You could also just make aiming at smaller targets just inaccurate with funky projectile trajectory or something?

Theres that dynamic aiming thing that makes you aim at your reticle instead of just shooting straight forward into infinity. Disable that for weapons designed for long range stuff?

[BlaxicanX]

AV Max's one-shot infantry?

Good. If you get hit by a giant missile designed to puncture tanks, you deserve to die. That's what respawns are for.

Anti-armor weaponry should be balanced against infantry by having very slow firing rates, very long reload rates, and a lack of splash damage. Giving infantry some kind of "special resistance" to an RPG to the face is ridiculous.

[KesTro]

Originally Posted by BlaxicanX

AV Max's one-shot infantry?

Good. If you get hit by a giant missile designed to puncture tanks, you deserve to die. That's what respawns are for.

Anti-armor weaponry should be balanced against infantry by having very slow firing rates, very long reload rates, and a lack of splash damage. Giving infantry some kind of "special resistance" to an RPG to the face is ridiculous.

The problem is that people are using them over their AI counterparts for close range engagements with infantry, they're simply better.

I was never a fan of the jack of all trades mentality. As someone stated earlier it's all about trade offs. I'm perfectly fine with these dominating vehicles but that is where the domination should stop.

Ravens do seem strong but as I'm NC and haven't bought them I can't attest for their power. I can attest to the power of the Fracture just about every TR max on Connery is using them.

[BlaxicanX]

AV Max's aren't affective against infantry because they one-shot infantry.

Being able to one-shot a single person is meaningless in a game where there's hundreds of people fighting in a single base at any one time.

[AThreatToYou]

The reason why the Raven is good AI is pretty much because of the reload speed, refire time, and projectile velocity. Increase all of these without decreasing DPS (increase damage per shot) would be preferable.

[Dragonskin]

So here is a quick very low quality vid trying to show how you can curve Raven shots to clear cover. Other than the Phoenix there isn't another weapon that offers this level of control. Mostly due to the 360 degree movement you get with MAXes vs AV MANA turrets. So yes... even though my targets weren't behind a rock in the vid you can see how they easily could have been and you can reliably hit them once you figure the curve and travel time needed.

On a side note. I play on 1080p and have the in game recorder set to high quality. Is the in game recorder just that crappy? I need to get something else I guess.