VS is not underpowered. Just powered by skill.

[NeoTassadar]

The quest continues.

[ZionsFire]

Nightwalker i would join ur ouyfit but wrong empire

[DarkDragon00]

just to say... jackhammers drop MAXes faster then AV weapons, lancer cant touch that!

[NightWalker XI]

Originally posted by NeoTassadar
The quest continues.

Yeah, 23 members at the moment, I hope someday we reach 100, but first I want to get a base established, a base of decent mature players (most people here seem that from your posts)

Nightwalker i would join ur ouyfit but wrong empire

Yeah that is a shame...if you ever change to VS it would be great to have you along

[Seer]

That guru guy is definitely right about the Thresher. I call it sparky, since I am not driving it long before it starts to throw off damage sparks. It actually does take damage if you try to pull out of the vehicle spawn at over 70% speed or so. It's main cannon baffles me with its relative ineffectiveness. On the plus side, it is the best offroad vehicle around.

[Jarlo]

Jackhammer in no way or fashion takes down max faster than a lancer. Heck Lasher takes them down faster than jackhammer. And yes I used armor piercing bullets.

On the versatility tirade you forgot to mention that Lasher is effective agaisnt hard targets and soft targets without changing ammo type.

[Zarparchior]

I agree with Grym, Knuckles, and Guru on this one. Agent White, your argument baffles me... You say the Puslar compliments the Lasher? Are you NUTS?! The pulsar IS accurate, the pulsar DOES have good recoil, BUT the pulsar does JACK SHIT for damage close or far range but sucks even worse at far range and has a significantly lower RoF. This makes this "gun" (more like laser pointer ) the worst AR period. Why use a Pulsar for range when you can use the much much MUCH better Lancer?

And why use that PoS called the Lasher? You fools that swear by it will always make me laugh and cry. Since I've been playing on TR for awhile now, I enjoy running into the VS. When I see pulsar shots whizing by, I run for the stupid bastard and gun him down easily with my Cycler at range. If I see the slow orbs of energy from that Lasher, I stay at medium distant and dispath the foe with (what else?) my Cycler. That's right... I can dodge 7/10 orbs - and get no lash damage from the missed shots. It's ludicrously easy to doge them still, even after their speed buff. Either their lashing range and damage need a significant increase or the Sweeper Shotgun will remain much better in close range. And having a Med assault better than Heavy assault at close range is just wrong.

Don't get me started on the Beamer. That thing really a laser pointer. Damage is non existant, and AP rounds (in general) are a joke.

If the Thresher's Phux Cannon actually did good damage and did splash as well (like the other two empires... ) then it'd be in much better condition. If you made it so that every bump in the road didn't decimate it's structual integerity, even better! Increase the armor so that's it's just below the other empires and you're my friend of balance.

The VS do no have versatility. Au contraire, mon ami. They rely on specialization. Their Lancer is the *ONLY* real versatile weapon. Every other thing requires mad timing, learned skillz, and a whole lot of luck or knowledge of what the enemy is going to do. The AMP (for infiltrators) is close range only, which SHOULD be pointless as they should be using their knife.... but that's right! Their knife makes loud noise AND glows! Whoa! Twice the disadvantages for the same price! Nice! Same with their MAXs. AI is realy only effective against infantry. AA is only effective against air (but all other empire AA MAXs are same, so null point), AV is super specialized. It only really hurts vehilces AT CLOSE RANGE. At a distance, you might as well run away. The orbs move sooooo incredibly slow that most vehilces can outrun them. Good luck trying to lead, you'll miss 9/10 of your shots if you have the luck of the TR. And that's pretty much your clip...

The VS are not balanced... they just have to use a whole lot of crazier styles than the other empires - and that requires brains. I'd say each empire is populated by about 60% of dumbasses and n00bs. For the other empires, that is perfectly okay. The game's learning curve is easy enough, and the only real "tactics" you need to use as teh other empires is zerging and teamwork. Get close enough to the enemy, shoot them without missing while having them miss you as much as possible. Simple. For the VS it doesn't work that way... if using the same style weapons and against the same amount of other players from another empire using same style tactics - YOU HAVE ALREADY LOST. And I think that even the VS fanbois would agree with that statement.

The VS still need some love. I h8 winning so much. I feel guilty... almost like coming back to the Vanu so I can be forced to use crazy tactics. In that case, I love the VS. It's just that since the majority of players are stupid... it makes the VS much harder to play...

[Franchize]

Let me begin by stating that again this is an excellent thread. Good points backed up by thoughtful statement of facts with mature arguments and minimal flaming. An earlier post brought up the issue of balance. I would like to comment on this in paticular and on the AV weapons of each faction.

I too have noticed when I log in that in the Faction Needed column of the server list the Vanu seem to be in need of members, but the icon size is related to the percentage of this need. The icons are small meaning that on any server at Eastern Prime time when I usually play, I notice very small icons which represent a difference of only a few percentage points. Yes the Vanu are the least popular Empire, but not by much. They are still capable of fielding considerable fighting strength.

I agree that of all the Empires the Vanu could certainly use a small boost to their weapon power. I have used all of their weapons, either with my alt on Johari (VS) or scavenged weapons I acquired with my TR character on Emerald. I had a rather bad impression of the Lancer but after the posts I have read here, I realise I was perhaps using it incorrectly.

I was also impressed with the posts by the MAX users, as I am sure I have run across several of these skilled individuals on several occasions, and they have taught me to respect the Vanu MAX, which in my oppinion is overall the best MAX in the game.

[Zarparchior]

I'm very glad for your post. I find it very reasurring that people, even if they do not entirely agree with everything the other might say, do not have to flame others and call them n00bz and claim they don't know how to use it correctly. That is the wrong way. Discussing points and giving reasons is the right way.

As long as we keep a level head, I will think very highly of this thread and even the people who disagree with me. Even though you shouldn't be - you crazy mofos.

**edit: The Lancer... It IS a difficult weapon to use, though. It has very good aim, but only when crouched and not moving the mouse at all. It's projectiles are not instant hit, but are indeed fast... it takes some time and patience to learn to lead it correctly. I find it very infuriating at times that it does such crappy damage to vehicles when compared to the other empires, but it kind of makes up for it by damaging infantry significantly. It is a VERY effective weapon in the rights hands under someone who's had a good deal of experience with it. Unfortunately, most newer players will go for the Pulsar and Lasher and be exceedingly disappointed...

[NightWalker XI]

And why use that PoS called the Lasher?

You must be fighting stupid people, point of Lasher is up close and personal battles, if they shoot at you and think they will hit you from far away they are thick.

If you look at all my kills (not that many but hey) 95% of them were done with a Lasher...in 3 days...Lasher can'y be that bad can it?

LoL, Lasher PWNS the people you play agaisnt must not know how to use it because on Werner the NC and TR know to hide when they see a guy holding a Lasher close to them

[Agent White]

Originally posted by DarkDragon00
just to say... jackhammers drop MAXes faster then AV weapons, lancer cant touch that!

I don't agree. I've timed the decimator, stryker, jackhammer, phoenix and lancer versus a max.

Lancer is the quickest at any range. I'd venture to say Jackhammer is the worst anti-max out of all of them because you basically have to be hugging the max to do any damage in the first place, which puts you in a very vulnerable position.

[Agent White]

Originally posted by Zarparchior
I agree with Grym, Knuckles, and Guru on this one. Agent White, your argument baffles me... You say the Puslar compliments the Lasher? Are you NUTS?! The pulsar IS accurate, the pulsar DOES have good recoil, BUT the pulsar does JACK SHIT for damage close or far range but sucks even worse at far range and has a significantly lower RoF. This makes this "gun" (more like laser pointer ) the worst AR period. Why use a Pulsar for range when you can use the much much MUCH better Lancer?

Because the Lancer would require extra cert points, it's ammo size and amount is also very inefficient. As I've said before the Pulsar shares ammo with the Lasher, making it a better complimentary weapon. Alternatively, you could use a Lasher/bolt driver combo, but that would leave you with a rather wide mid-range gap.

The Pulsar's cone of fire return rate is almost as fast as the suppressor, making it a viable burst weapon with 4x zoom. If you're doing a base to tower shoot out with someone using a cycler or jackhammer, it doesn't matter how little damage the Pulsar does because you'll be the only one landing shots. Close the distance and out comes the Lasher.

And why use that PoS called the Lasher? You fools that swear by it will always make me laugh and cry. Since I've been playing on TR for awhile now, I enjoy running into the VS. When I see pulsar shots whizing by, I run for the stupid bastard and gun him down easily with my Cycler at range. If I see the slow orbs of energy from that Lasher, I stay at medium distant and dispath the foe with (what else?) my Cycler. That's right... I can dodge 7/10 orbs - and get no lash damage from the missed shots. It's ludicrously easy to doge them still, even after their speed buff. Either their lashing range and damage need a significant increase or the Sweeper Shotgun will remain much better in close range. And having a Med assault better than Heavy assault at close range is just wrong.

Ever see a bunch of TR try to storm a CC room and run into a wall of Lasher fire? Not pretty. A pumpkin patch of little red vests.

The advantage of the lasher is that it will fire straight ahead if you are running or strafing. The Cycler won't. The Jackhammer is only good at REALLY close range, and you have to be able to make it through all that Lasher fire before you can do any real damage.

Don't get me started on the Beamer. That thing really a laser pointer. Damage is non existant, and AP rounds (in general) are a joke.

I've found it good for taking out infiltrators when I'm using dual lancers. Infs usually use AMP which sucks if you're not point blank. Darklight + beamer does the job. AP mode good for clearing mines.

If the Thresher's Phux Cannon actually did good damage and did splash as well (like the other two empires... ) then it'd be in much better condition. If you made it so that every bump in the road didn't decimate it's structual integerity, even better! Increase the armor so that's it's just below the other empires and you're my friend of balance.

The thresher's weapon and handling potential are really good for taking out enemy AMS and ANTs. Better than the other buggies I'd say. Arc weapons suck when you're chasing an AMS, I outran a prowler the other day because the gunner couldn't land a shot on me.

The VS do no have versatility. Au contraire, mon ami. They rely on specialization. Their Lancer is the *ONLY* real versatile weapon. Every other thing requires mad timing, learned skillz, and a whole lot of luck or knowledge of what the enemy is going to do. The AMP (for infiltrators) is close range only, which SHOULD be pointless as they should be using their knife.... but that's right! Their knife makes loud noise AND glows! Whoa!

I didn't say that all the weapons are versatile, but that because our heavy and med assault weapons share ammo, they allow for more versatility.

I happen to have inf suit and melee booster (my personal anti-sniper favorite) and I can kill people in 2 shots with Vanu knife, which only glows in SECONDARY attack mode, which I DON'T USE. Looks like you don't know what you're talking about.

Twice the disadvantages for the same price! Nice! Same with their MAXs. AI is realy only effective against infantry.

And enemy MAXes. I've had AI cert since BR2. Once I get behind a TR or NC max, it's rather easy to stay behind him. Getting behind is simple with jumpjets.

AA is only effective against air (but all other empire AA MAXs are same, so null point),

I would venture to say that due to jumpjets we are the most unkillable AA maxes of all three empires. Not only can you not rocket me to death, your ground forces can't reach me because I'm on your roof.

AV is super specialized. It only really hurts vehilces AT CLOSE RANGE.

Apparently you've never been a TR or NC max trying to storm a CC and running into a bunch of Vanu AV max comet fire. You'll be dirtnapping before you get through the door.

At a distance, you might as well run away. The orbs move sooooo incredibly slow that most vehilces can outrun them.

Read my original post. It's hard to run away when I'm on the roof of your Vanguard, or standing on top of your deployed AMS. The Comet is a close range MAX. You don't go toe to toe with a lightning from half a mile away with a Vanu comet MAX. Close distance in run mode, use your jumpjets and unload while directly above him.

Good luck trying to lead, you'll miss 9/10 of your shots if you have the luck of the TR. And that's pretty much your clip...

Sorry, I know how to play.

The VS are not balanced... they just have to use a whole lot of crazier styles than the other empires - and that requires brains.

Thank you for rephrasing the title of my thread.

I'd say each empire is populated by about 60% of dumbasses and n00bs. For the other empires, that is perfectly okay. The game's learning curve is easy enough, and the only real "tactics" you need to use as teh other empires is zerging and teamwork. Get close enough to the enemy, shoot them without missing while having them miss you as much as possible. Simple. For the VS it doesn't work that way... if using the same style weapons and against the same amount of other players from another empire using same style tactics - YOU HAVE ALREADY LOST. And I think that even the VS fanbois would agree with that statement.

Once again, you're preaching the choir. As I have already stated, Vanu weapon potential is far greater than the others, but requires advanced skill to take advantage of.

The VS still need some love. I h8 winning so much. I feel guilty...

Come to Markov and send me a tell. I'll be sure to make you feel better.

almost like coming back to the Vanu so I can be forced to use crazy tactics. In that case, I love the VS. It's just that since the majority of players are stupid... it makes the VS much harder to play...

Once again, agreed. Once you learn to use Vanu weapons, the viability of zerg rushing by NC and TR diminishes.

[FearTheAtlas]

Vanu are hella good, but as others have said most players haven't figured the tactics to be successful. I've seen a guy w/ 2 lancers rush a guarded CC like he had a Mini-Chaingun or Jackhammer, it just dosen't do. And speaking of the Lancer I grab those things like free money, as soon as I get Hvy. Weapons I'm finding some freaking ammo and using it. Vanu=Underrated