Trayvon Martin

[Malorn]

Meh.

[Vash02]

Originally Posted by Natir

Slaves were not always black. Take a few history classes and you will learn that slaves were all sorts of colors throughout history.

Yes, I do know slavery was a rainbow coalition affair. Like did you know Arab Slavers used to take entire villages of people off the coast of Cornwall, England in the 16th century?

But in the context of the converstation I'm talking about a black-white divide.

I was referring to self-segregation. Some folks worked hard to remove segregation, the irony being that people now do it to themselves anyway. Sure maybe not in public schools but there's minority communities that choose to stay that way rather than integrating. It's also been 48 years.

How does that change my comment? those who grew up under segregation have only just about reached retirement age. its going to take generations for these kinds of atitudes to change.

You cant expect black people to take their culture that they were forced to make by themselves and throw it off completely once segregation ended. Its going to take a long time for each culture to mix.

[Figment]

Originally Posted by Vash02

You cant expect black people to take their culture that they were forced to make by themselves and throw it off completely once segregation ended. Its going to take a long time for each culture to mix.

Come on Vash, you just know how Malorn could start acting like ghetto youth in a completely white suburb community within a decade, so it's also possible the other way around for ghetto youth to act like suburbians because all their friends do it!



Sub-culture is complicated stuff Malorn. Cultures don't just integrate at the snapping of your fingers. If you really want to form a mono-culture with hispanics and blacks, be prepared to do things like forcing mixed housing and schooling. Meaning forcing white people to live in black areas and vice-versa and sending their white kids to "black" schools and allowing black kids in white private schools, etc.

And then you have no idea what the end result will be: which traits, norms and values will be lost and which will be transfered?



Either way, you just know that would go down well with the voting masses!

[This post was sponsored by Sarcasm Incorporated Ltd.]

[ItsTheSheppy]

As a white guy, please allow me to explain to the minorities my ancestors spent hundreds of years subjugating how all their problems are their own fault and they're just defeating themselves. Because as a white man, I have a unique, objective perspective on things. It's just one of the many advantages.

[BuzzCutPsycho]

Slavery is something truly unique to the black race.

[Traak]

Originally Posted by Sobekeus

Why not? BW Racism is practically nonexistant in other countries that also had slavery. But in this one it isn't even lessening... in many ways it is worsening.

Are you referring to the USA? The only white-majority country in the history of mankind to elect a black president?

How many of the other enlghtened, forward-thinking uber-egalitarian countries have had a president that was black? How about even anything BUT white?

I don't see racism getting worse. There are also other problems in people's lives than what someone else calls them, that are much bigger problems.

Before whipping out the race card, how about we first whip out the "support all your children and be present in their lives" card. Then the "work at a job" card. Then the "don't use illicit drugs" card. Oh, and the "don't be a racist myself" card.

The deck has more cards than just "Waaah! Someone called me a redneck!"

Collect them all!

[Baneblade]

Originally Posted by Traak

Are you referring to the USA? The only white-majority country in the history of mankind to elect a black president?

How many of the other enlghtened, forward-thinking uber-egalitarian countries have had a president that was black? How about even anything BUT white?

I don't see racism getting worse. There are also other problems in people's lives than what someone else calls them, that are much bigger problems.

Before whipping out the race card, how about we first whip out the "support all your children and be present in their lives" card. Then the "work at a job" card. Then the "don't use illicit drugs" card. Oh, and the "don't be a racist myself" card.

The deck has more cards than just "Waaah! Someone called me a redneck!"

Collect them all!

That's cute, now get back in your box.

[Quovatis]

In the USA, "racist" has lost its true meaning. It has changed to referring to a white person criticizing a black for any reason whatsoever. It's almost laughable at times. "Racism" exists largely because blacks want it to exist and they can use it as a weapon to get what they want. Yes, there is still true racism around, but it is nowhere near as bad as it is made out to be.

[ItsTheSheppy]

Originally Posted by Quovatis

In the USA, "racist" has lost its true meaning. It has changed to referring to a white person criticizing a black for any reason whatsoever. It's almost laughable at times. "Racism" exists largely because blacks want it to exist and they can use it as a weapon to get what they want. Yes, there is still true racism around, but it is nowhere near as bad as it is made out to be.

I find myself normally agreeing with you, Quovatis, or at least finding your posts relatively sensible on the whole. This, however, was so completely wrong and misguided that it cause me real, physical discomfort to read it.

You can't really believe all that, can you? When Stephen Colbert has black guests on his show and asks them how they're getting along now that Obama is president and racism is over, you know he says that because he's playing a character who's supposed to be completely removed from reality... right?

[Quovatis]

I never said racism is over. There is plenty of it still. But many times what a high-profile black activist calls racism really isn't racism.

[Figment]

I recognize what you are saying Quovatis, though it's a bit much to call it a default. That does happen yes, even seen it on the football pitch: ref books a player, player says it's because the ref is racist, ref awards another card and sends him off: their team think this is racism confirmed, even if it's simply maintaining order and it's against the rules to insult the referee. A lot don't recognise their own responsibility, but that very much differs by ethnicity and upbringing.

For instance, the Turkish husband of one of the mothers that helps out at the local grammar school was appaled by the behaviour of other Turkish players in football teams and only wants to play with dutch players. Why? Because his Turkish teammembers ALWAYS blamed someone else for their problems: the referee, the pitch, the opponent (Cheats! Racists!), even other teammembers, but never taking any responsibility for their own mistakes or accepting their team as a whole (themselves included) might have made mistakes. The opposite is true for the majority of dutch teams: they look at their own mistakes first, if someone messes up, they tend to know it (not all of course, but certainly not nobody).

Completely different mentality. You saw it with the Turkish airline crash at Schiphol, it was human error, but the Turkish media, airline and government immediately had blamed equipment somewhere must have failed, because Turkish pilots do not fail. When the dutch committee laid blame with the pilots for setting the auto-pilot wrong, the Turks were furious: must have been racism or some plot to make Turkey look bad instead of the aircraft manufacturer!

Similarly, when an Egyptian pilot of Egypt Air made a plane crash to commit suicide, this was considered a taboo: Egyptians don't commit suicide and certainly not while piloting an aircraft. Nor was the airline to blame for not suspending the pilot over prior sexual harassments ("they never occured"). No, blame for the crash must have been with the manufacturer. Apparently.

The sort of thing Quovatis states does happen, but it's a bit cynical to state the definition of racism itself changed. Mostly when false claims on racism are made, it's either pride, paranoia or ignorance.

However, you may recall this event too:


The reasons for that statement then hasn't simply disappeared over night. There was a lot of controversy about the mere notion of a black president coming to power, which often had little to do with the content he stood for. The racist sentiment may have been subdued a bit, as it is not as structural, education has improved and has therefore become far less acceptable, but it's still very much there. :/

The same is true for the opposite racism though. If you look at South Africa, the opposite seems to be occuring, where white people are often discriminated against. That country too has a lot of healing still to be done.

[ItsTheSheppy]

I guess I have a hard time when white people (I'm just assuming that the 'racism isn't as bad as you all think it is' crowd are predominantly white) feel like they can explain concepts like racism, or homophobia, or sexism, in a way that makes it sound like they know more than, say, the targets of those things.

As a white man, I freely admit that I was born with automatic privilege and that I don't really get a seat at the table when we all talk about what is or isn't racism, unless all I'm doing is listening.

[The Desert Fox]

Last I checked being white hasn't gotten me shit. Working 2 jobs while going to school has gotten me a lot of places, but I don't think being white forced me to work harder or go to school. I went to a very wealthy high school because my mom worked 2 jobs to put me there, but it was a public school and the inner city would bus kids in because it wasn't fair that they didn't get to go to a school like mine.

Of the black kids who were bussed in, 1/2 would drop out by their junior year, and 1/4 would go to jail by their senior year. I played football with a kid, and one day a bunch of his friends thought it would be fun to ambush a white family outside the metro and literally beat then almost to death for no reason, when he was called in to identify them, he wouldn't do it. He was their but had no part in it, and instead of testifying he went to jail because "you don't rat on your friends" he was a hell of a football player and a good student. What kind of mentality is that?

[Vecha]

Originally Posted by ItsTheSheppy

I don't really get a seat at the table when we all talk about what is or isn't racism, unless all I'm doing is listening.

But...aren't you "talking" now.

I feel any race gets to talk about racism.

I feel racism is sadly, still around, but I don't want to shut people down who happen to be white or those who feel it isn't that bad.

[Baneblade]

Originally Posted by ItsTheSheppy

I guess I have a hard time when white people (I'm just assuming that the 'racism isn't as bad as you all think it is' crowd are predominantly white) feel like they can explain concepts like racism, or homophobia, or sexism, in a way that makes it sound like they know more than, say, the targets of those things.

As a white man, I freely admit that I was born with automatic privilege and that I don't really get a seat at the table when we all talk about what is or isn't racism, unless all I'm doing is listening.

And what do you say to a white man that was subjected to racism?