I spy a jetpack

[Higby]

Bit more about this -

Certain weapons use one mechanic a lot more than others - for instance weapon recoil (kick / barrel rise, whatever you want to call it) doesn't work as well as COF for something like a hip-fired minigun or LMG, but it works great for an assault rifle in iron sights / scope. We have the capacity to apply both to differing degrees based on weapon type, movement (crouching, running, jumping), fire mode (iron sights, scope, hip fire). That gives us the maximum flexibility to make weapons that feels realistic.

[Aractain]

Sounds good.

[Bags]

Originally Posted by Higby

Bit more about this -

Certain weapons use one mechanic a lot more than others - for instance weapon recoil (kick / barrel rise, whatever you want to call it) doesn't work as well as COF for something like a hip-fired minigun or LMG, but it works great for an assault rifle in iron sights / scope. We have the capacity to apply both to differing degrees based on weapon type, movement (crouching, running, jumping), fire mode (iron sights, scope, hip fire). That gives us the maximum flexibility to make weapons that feels realistic.

I'm liking this idea. Kickback would have been a PITA for MCG, but I'm fine-ish with it on rifles for example.

yay.

[Xyntech]

That sounds like a pretty good solution.

A little kick back could make a HA feel more powerful, while the COF bloom simulated the weapon jumping all over the place in your hands as it fired.

A small COF on a rifle would prevent them from ever being fully accurate while in full auto, while a kickback providing most of the inaccuracy during rapid fire would allow you to learn to counter it somewhat.

This will also allow for even more options to tweak stats and find that sweet spot of balance.

Good to hear that the COF is making a comeback. As long as shotguns don't have a wider spread of pellets when their COF is large, I'll be happy.

[Graywolves]

I like kickback/weaponrise. I like aiming centermass/chest and doing so with those weapons ends up providing me with a headshot.

Both systems work fine for me really.

[Bags]

Yeah, but kick back takes a lot less skill to manage than COF. You can just hold M1 and not miss.

[Graywolves]

Originally Posted by Bags

Yeah, but kick back takes a lot less skill to manage than COF. You can just hold M1 and not miss.

No matter what the mechanic is, you're just pointing and clicking in an FPS.

[Bags]

Originally Posted by Graywolves

No matter what the mechanic is, you're just pointing and clicking in an FPS.

Yes, but in BF3 you can hold mouse 1 and spray fairly accurately across the map, where that doesn't work in PS1 due to large TTK and COF.

[Graywolves]

Originally Posted by Bags

Yes, but in BF3 you can hold mouse 1 and spray fairly accurately across the map, where that doesn't work in PS1 due to large TTK and COF.

That is a valid point. I think if the kickback is powerful enough we shouldn't have that problem but with high mouse sensitivity it might be exploitable.

[Xyntech]

Originally Posted by Bags

Yeah, but kick back takes a lot less skill to manage than COF. You can just hold M1 and not miss.

I'd say they take about the same amount of skill, but in different ways.

Fighting the kick back is a more active skill. Managing COF is a more passive skill that takes more patience than anything.

Originally Posted by Graywolves

That is a valid point. I think if the kickback is powerful enough we shouldn't have that problem but with high mouse sensitivity it might be exploitable.

I think the trick to this is to not make the kick back be %100 consistent. Like maybe it always kicks the gun upwards a certain amount, but in addition to that it may kick the gun a tiny bit in any other direction, so it may kick upwards a little more or less than you expected or it may drift to one side or the other.

Just increasing the kickback will only penalize players with lower sensitivity and reward players with higher. Maybe that's not always a bad thing, but certainly not the way to balance a standard everyman rifle.

[Bags]

edit" shouldn't derail this this badly.

[Traak]

Standard and predictable kickback will result in mouse macros that move the mouse down a certain amount per second or per shot, to completely counteract the kick with any chosen weapon.

Or cheats that eliminate kick on a per-weapon basis, so now instead of having COF, we have zero COF because kick can be macro'd out of the equation with easy-to-use programming on the part of hack sellers.

I like COF bloom and the floating retical of PS because it made it so your forward view wasn't 30 percent filled with a close-up of your weapon, which, to me is stupid-looking after a while. I don't need to keep seeing the top of my rifle in great detail to feel immersed.

I think PS's original system was great. But I don't cheat or use HA, so I guess I would. Imagine if your glue gun had full-auto kick. Then I might hate kick even more.

[CutterJohn]

Originally Posted by Bags

Yeah, but kick back takes a lot less skill to manage than COF. You can just hold M1 and not miss.

You can learn to manage it though. With a CoF you're at the whims of the RNG. If someone suggested random damage there would be rage(i.e. RPG style 10-19 damage or whatever), but randomized aim is somehow fine.

At least they could make the resting cof 1-2 MOA. The resting cof of PS weapons was worse than the spread of a real shotgun(and the shotguns were just stupid).

[NapalmEnima]

Originally Posted by CutterJohn

You can learn to manage it though. With a CoF you're at the whims of the RNG. If someone suggested random damage there would be rage(i.e. RPG style 10-19 damage or whatever), but randomized aim is somehow fine.

You can manage your kick back but not your CoF? Err... wait.

Yes, each weapon will have some minimum-but-still-relatively-large CoF when fired from the hip. If you really want to hit your target, use the sights. That's what they're for.

And as far as CoF bloom as you fire vs kick back?

Listen to Hicks: Short, Controlled Bursts

[Baneblade]

Originally Posted by krnasaur

jetpacks cant be that bad, aslong as you have 25 armor and pistols only.

The Dual Beamer Avenger?