Payment schemes

[Accuser]

Despite being a big PS fan and being able to afford it, I'm not sure I'd pay for a game where I could succeed in F2P as easily as I could with purchase+sub.

I like the Champions Online system, which creates a very linear class progression for F2P players but freeform ability selection for subs. While PS2 subs would still be limited to classes, F2P characters would only unlock key components of their class over time but still end up inferior to a subs character at max rank.

It would also help motivate me to subscribe if subs were awarded some micro-transactions credit for free with every month.

[Crator]

Originally Posted by Accuser

I'm not sure I'd pay for a game where I could succeed in F2P as easily as I could with purchase+sub.

I would hope most people feel the same way. I also don't see how it would be beneficial to any company running a MMO to do something like this.

[Sirisian]

Originally Posted by exLupo

There is a substantial psychological difference in 100% more xp and 50% less. It sets the freep as the baseline and anyone who pays not only is moving faster than the rest, they're a higher class of player. Just a phrasing thing that prints money.

Yeah I removed that wording so people could see the underlying proposals cleanly.

There appears to be a large proportion of people that want a F2P aspect. People have proposed experience penalties and BR caps along with training speed reductions. (None of these suggestions are bundled per say. Just ideas people had to separate F2P players from subscription).

Then you have CutterJohn and maybe others (it's hard to tell) that support pay to win. I'm not sure if he's playing devil's advocate in doing so. However, I'm also not sure if he's describing a pay to win to go along with subscription or one where you have a subscription and you get access to everything and only F2P people use the cash shop to buy pieces of the subscription system or it's simply pay to win where you buy a class/weapon/vehicle for a month.

Originally Posted by Redshift

offline training is irrelevent tbh, when you buy game time you're buying time connected to the server, the offline thing has a limit to it they said you need to log in once a day to queue stuff up. It's not like you can cheat the system and raise a char to max for zero money, you'd still need to play the char to get the br up and thus spend time connected

You only need to log into the on-line system or an app to change or set upgrades. I doubt such a system would cost "play-time minutes". I still don't see how much a system could be feasible. At least with F2P you can define a limit like "if you don't have a subscription your training goes at half-speed" or something. With a play-time you're like a subscription player so you should have full-training, but the training time isn't fixed. I guess the best way I could think of would be when you purchase time the training starts separate from the play-time and begins training for X time you've purchased. However, that would gimp a person that's only playing for a few hours a week since they're training time doesn't correspond to the amount they've paid for. Meaning if they bought 100 hours then training would stop after 4 days. Unless a weight was used that where you buy play-time and you get a multiplied amount of training time.

Or the other solution is that training for all characters no matter much goes at a constant rate without a subscription so F2P, Subscription, and purchased time players all train based on their character creation date and not in relation to their subscription times, but that sounds like a non-profitable solution. I mean BR stops person from training, but for a F2P person without a BR cap, which a few people suggested, they'd have everything if they just play enough.

Also the problem was already brought up that if a BR cap is used then what happens when a previous subscription player logs on to play. Are all their higher BR certs locked? That would be the intuitive choice.

Right now I'm very skeptical about the purchased time concept and the F2P with no BR. I'm ignoring the people that want to turn this into guild wars where you buy the box and then buy optional or mandatory DLC/expansions. Any insights on the no BR system other than the limited experience/training speed? I mean it sounds like a nice system until someone stops caring about BR/experience.

[Aractain]

What do you class as pay to win? For me they only thing that is pay to win is being able to buy simply better weapons than are avaliable otherwise and extra health/armour etc.

If its just different weapons or even an entire class of weponary its not P2W because you are not anymore powerful than a free player.

Also buying "play time" is a bad system because every minuey you spend in the game you feel like you need to make the most out of your time (OMG NEVER GO AFK!).
This is similar to the flaw of the sub - you might not log on for a month or two but you still have to pay.

Right now I see people dismiss second teir sub games more than they dismiss f2p (and the f2p ones only do it because of the "perception" of bad F2Ps).


GW2 is going to have cosmetic stuff in their cash shop btw.

[Redshift]

Originally Posted by Aractain

(OMG NEVER GO AFK!).

log off if you're going afk for any meaningful amount of time, you know to free up space on the cont so you're not a drain to your empire?

Originally Posted by Sirisian

You only need to log into the on-line system or an app to change or set upgrades. I doubt such a system would cost "play-time minutes". I still don't see how much a system could be feasible.
.....

Offline training is still irrelevent, it only lets you queue up skills you still need to play the game to unlock BR to unlock the skills

i suppose you could level a char to max and then offline train everything up for very little money, but in that scenario you can't play the game for a year while thats happening. If it's just about leveling an alt it would be faster doing it as an alt on your main account that is playing.

[zuesrocks]

Originally Posted by Senyu

If they choose the 15/month subscription........



....you'll still play it.......

it will be 15/month subscription

[Crator]

Originally Posted by Aractain

Also buying "play time" is a bad system because every minuey you spend in the game you feel like you need to make the most out of your time (OMG NEVER GO AFK!).
This is similar to the flaw of the sub - you might not log on for a month or two but you still have to pay.

It's just an option that some people may want to use.

[Aaron]

One-time payment sounds attractive. I don't want to worry about periodical payments.

[Redshift]

Originally Posted by Aaron

One-time payment sounds attractive. I don't want to worry about periodical payments.

Lifetime sub won't happen, i explained why earlier

[Sirisian]

Originally Posted by Redshift

i suppose you could level a char to max and then offline train everything up for very little money, but in that scenario you can't play the game for a year while thats happening. If it's just about leveling an alt it would be faster doing it as an alt on your main account that is playing.

Yeah that's more what I was talking about. This skews the F2P system for people that don't want a cap since they could train at the same speed as a subscription player. Or would they first need to purchase time to unlock the normal training speed?

I'd be curious if Higby would mention if you could train without having a subscription and if so at what rate.

[Chaff]

.
$15/mo for ONE game is too much. SOE needs to step back and recognize the tipping point. They need to focus on attracting, and then maintaining a substantial Pop.

The monthy rate needs to be closer to $5 than $15. If they price the Pop down - the game is doomed to fail. If the price allows for a large Pop - then the game is more likely to sustain itself - and hence the larger membership.

They can farm membership/subscriptions for money. They need a bigger herd - at the $5-per-head range vs. a small herd at $15-per-head.

Besides flaws in the game, subsciptions fell is PS1 because long-term the game was not worth $15/mo. Maybe in the beginning. As the game and the player get used to each other, it takes less for a player to get turned off.
.

[Bags]

Originally Posted by Chaff

$15/mo for ONE game is too much. SOE needs to step back and recognize the tipping point. They need to focus on attracting, and then maintaining a substantial Pop.

$15/mo is the standard subscription for ONE game.

[Crator]

Originally Posted by Bags

$15/mo is the standard subscription for ONE game.

And those games usually have continued new development throughout the life of the game.

[Bags]

Originally Posted by Crator

And those games usually have continued new development throughout the life of the game.

Are you saying PS2 won't? Link to such information.

[Crator]

^^^ Not saying that at all. Just bitter because PS1 was like that.