Sniper rifle trail

[bullet]

You guys seem to be forgetting this is not BF/CoD. There are hundreds of other people fighting alongside you. Hopefully you're not all using the same noob method of farming kills. So there should be snipers on your team, air, tanks, infantry, maxes, INFILTRATORS, medics, and engies.

There are tons of methods availble and different ROUTES to move around and flank. The sniper class is called infiltrator for a reason. In PS1, you can cloak and be invisible, sneak behind enemy lines and blow up/stab/shoot the camping snipers, that is another counter to the sniper. Just because they are given a sniper rifle doesnt mean that their only capable of sniping. So far I have yet to see any gameplay of actual infiltrators being infiltrators which is quite sad.

[CutterJohn]

Originally Posted by Xyntech

Ranged battles weren't hurt by snipers in PS1, they were hurt by MA rifles being so shitty at longer range, due to high TTK, noteworthy damage degradation, mediocre accuracy, warping, etc.

I'm fine with snipers having tracers or not, depending on what ends up being the most balanced. But what I'd really like to see is for rifles to be able to compete with snipers at all but the longest ranges, at which range snipers are going to have to work extra hard for their shots anyways.

Shouldn't be as big of an issue. The major problem was the armor absorption on Rexo, which pretty much meant all max range MA shots went to armor, which meant the player with MA had to whittle through 300+ hitpoints at 10 damage per shot or so.

In PS2, no absorption that I know of, and cloakers are a pretty weak class. I'm betting they are the ones with the sniper rifle specifically to make counterfire more effective.

[ArcIyte]

The sniper kids here would have you believe that they serve as some great scout for their "outfit" or that they only take out key elements like vanguard drivers (lol).

In reality, they did none of these, and spent all their time shooting afkers, noobs, and generally irritating people who were actually playing the game.

Snipers are fine in realistic or sim games like Arma and Red Orchestra, because there are realistic downsides to using a scoped rifle. Modern arcade-style "sniper rifles" take those downsides away and we're left with a bunch of pussies with railguns. And just for laughs the OP wants to be virtually undetectable by removing tracers from sniper rounds. What a joke.

[Cuross]

Will sniper rifles need to lead targets and wait for targeting reticule to become accurate again like from PS1? I actually found that I much preferred that kind of sniping compared to other modern games, meant I had to really plan my shots and targets. It's such a switch from modern games, that I believe only the hardiest of newcomers would continue using a sniper rifle at extreme ranges since it was pretty easy to use at short-mid ranges.

Edit:
And ArcIyte, dude chill out. We understand your issues with it, no need to try to offend. You would have us all believe that every sniper was a stat padder, and surely you've had bad experiences with them in every game, but that's what we're trying to do, figure out if there is a way to make sniping different from those other games that you've had issues with.

[Sabot]

Originally Posted by CutterJohn

Yes you would. It would be a very big sacrifice. Currently the sniper has big damage and a huge range, at the expense of stealth. If you want the stealth back, you're going to take a huge hit to range or damage.

That's the thing... I don't mind no cloak at all if that's the trade off I need to make to be the most effective at what I'm supposed to do. Nor do I mind that the Beamer is all I get if I want to run around unseen all the time. Because people do have legimate (if somewhat misdirected sometimes) concerns about the class. It should not be easy to play such a, imo, useful and powerful class. If I got my way, you'd need the range finder at those extreme ranges, and while there's no tracer round, a clear muzzle flash and a loud bang would defenitely make your position known.
I even said in another thread a while back that these bangs and muzzle flashes could be autmaticly located by infantry in range, using the 3D spotting system, so you instantly know where they are.

[Redshift]

Originally Posted by ArcIyte

The sniper kids here would have you believe that they serve as some great scout for their "outfit" or that they only take out key elements like vanguard drivers (lol)

I was pointing out that sniping is far from useless, but please do tell us what you spent your time doing that was so much more worthwhile? because honestly, unless you were the infil sticking the router pad in the gen of the red alert interlink, then you were just as worthless as everyone else.

[RodenyC]

Originally Posted by ArcIyte

The sniper kids here would have you believe that they serve as some great scout for their "outfit" or that they only take out key elements like vanguard drivers (lol).

In reality, they did none of these, and spent all their time shooting afkers, noobs, and generally irritating people who were actually playing the game.

Snipers are fine in realistic or sim games like Arma and Red Orchestra, because there are realistic downsides to using a scoped rifle. Modern arcade-style "sniper rifles" take those downsides away and we're left with a bunch of pussies with railguns. And just for laughs the OP wants to be virtually undetectable by removing tracers from sniper rounds. What a joke.

Don't know what you're on but I've seen and done those very things you said people didn't do.As well infiltrators should be hard to detect whether they are sniping/recon or infiltrating a base. If anything you should be able to customize your gun to where you loose the tracer ,but have a heavyer gun or such.

[Eyeklops]

Because of the new spotting mechanics, that sniper sitting up on a hill may be doing a great deed to his squad regardless of what his K/D says.

Also, not all snipers are bush wookies. When sniping in BF3 I typically use a 4X scope and work with the squad to push/defend objectives.

[CutterJohn]

Originally Posted by Sabot

That's the thing... I don't mind no cloak at all if that's the trade off I need to make to be the most effective at what I'm supposed to do. Nor do I mind that the Beamer is all I get if I want to run around unseen all the time. Because people do have legimate (if somewhat misdirected sometimes) concerns about the class. It should not be easy to play such a, imo, useful and powerful class. If I got my way, you'd need the range finder at those extreme ranges, and while there's no tracer round, a clear muzzle flash and a loud bang would defenitely make your position known.
I even said in another thread a while back that these bangs and muzzle flashes could be autmaticly located by infantry in range, using the 3D spotting system, so you instantly know where they are.

I'm not talking about the stealth of the cloak. I'm talking about the stealth of being able to shoot without betraying your location, which is incredibly powerful. Cloakers with pistols are no big deal, you know in general where they are. Snipers without tracers would be incredibly problematic to find.

[Hypevosa]

If you really hate snipers so much then take up the mantle of the countersniper and stop whining and start getting revenge. Every effective squad should have 2 snipers for counter sniping purposes and for scouting, softening enemy defenses before entry. If you can depend on your counter sniper to have your back you should be fine.

I'm a sniper, but I only snipe normal infantry when there aren't other snipers around that I can go toe to toe with.

[Sabot]

Originally Posted by CutterJohn

I'm not talking about the stealth of the cloak. I'm talking about the stealth of being able to shoot without betraying your location, which is incredibly powerful. Cloakers with pistols are no big deal, you know in general where they are. Snipers without tracers would be incredibly problematic to find.

Ah, I misunderstood then. But I believe I answered on that as well in my other post. And if that seem like a too extreme of a solution to it, at least there is 3D spotting.. and if it works anything like in BF3, all you have to do is aim in the general direction and "spot" and you'll see them, without actually seeing them.

[ArcIyte]

Originally Posted by Hypevosa

If you really hate snipers so much then take up the mantle of the countersniper and stop whining and start getting revenge. Every effective squad should have 2 snipers for counter sniping purposes and for scouting, softening enemy defenses before entry. If you can depend on your counter sniper to have your back you should be fine.

I'm a sniper, but I only snipe normal infantry when there aren't other snipers around that I can go toe to toe with.

No thanks, that runs the risk of giving them a fun sniper duel. I'll give them the same gift they give infantry by farming them in my mosquito.

[CutterJohn]

Originally Posted by Hypevosa

If you really hate snipers so much then take up the mantle of the countersniper and stop whining and start getting revenge. Every effective squad should have 2 snipers for counter sniping purposes and for scouting, softening enemy defenses before entry. If you can depend on your counter sniper to have your back you should be fine.

I'm a sniper, but I only snipe normal infantry when there aren't other snipers around that I can go toe to toe with.

I don't hate snipers. I do think the tracer is fine as is, though, and serves as a fine balance for their great range advantage.

If you're worried about giving your position away to air and cloakers, and don't like repositioning, I might recommend making friends with an AA max and an engineer with cloak detection. If you just want to be lone wolf sniper from the same spot constantly, I'm not sure what to tell you.

[EVILoHOMER]

It's good, they need to keep it.

[Cuross]

Originally Posted by ArcIyte

No thanks, that runs the risk of giving them a fun sniper duel. I'll give them the same gift they give infantry by farming them in my mosquito.

lol and us snipers respect that. But now I'm just wondering, if everything is supposed to be fair, then when you happen to sneak up behind an enemy, do you tap them on the shoulder and ask for a proper firefight? Lord knows he's just waiting to be farmed if you got behind him, haha.

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Back on topic:
I think the real issue is if the tracer round is going to go away, finding a different sacrifice is necessary. As a sniper, we still want the range and damage, but I think I can speak for the rest of us when we say we'd happily sacrifice time instead. Give us back the targeting reticule or put in a mechanic where we have to take the time to set up a steady shot, without us being able to move even the crosshairs too much. That makes it so that we can't easily involve ourselves in a normal firefight from such great distance and we'd pretty much have to focus on finding a stationary target.

Would there be a way to make it so that the tracer started halfway through the shot instead of going all the way to the sniper rifle? Or three quarters the way, that way people will still know the direction of the sniper, just not the actual area.